Peace Dollar CrossOver ANACS to PCGS - Toned 1923

FrattLaw

What do you think - MS64, MS65 or maybe even an MS66? It's in a ANACS holder. What has everyone's experience been with crossovers from ANACS to PCGS. I talked to one of their graders @ Long Beach and he seemed to think that ANACS is actually harder then PCGS, especially on Moderns. Crack it out and submit or leave it in the holder?

It's my first purchase towards a new registry set and I really wanted a toned piece. It's hard to find nicely toned peace dollars from my understanding. I probably grossly overpaid, but the color just seem to sucker me in.

Linky

Thanks

Michael

MW Fattorosi Collection

BigE

Michael, I guess it depends on how much you would lose or gain if the grade comes back lower or higher. I tried to cross an 1896-S ANACS Morgan over to PCGS, it was anacs 62, it takes a huge dump at any grade less than this, so I did not crack it out and sent it in as is. It did not cross--------------BigE

MAULUMALL

Dude THAT is one fine coin.Much nicer than my 1923 NGC 65.
I think my question to you would be "What grade do you feel it should be".

Placid

65

Elcontador

I'm not a Peace $ expert, but the color looks real enough to me. After hearing nothing but horror stories from various dealers about their bad luck with submissions for the last year and a half or so, I have not submitted anything to anybody since then.

I have a few coins that I am holding until such time that the grading standards loosen up again, at which time I will submit them. Just my 2 cents on this.

MAULUMALL

Whats the diff in 65 & 66 money.Couple hundred?
The way I see it you will always question the grade on that coin.
May I ask what you paid for it?

Placid

Numismedia 65-$88 66-$540.

FrattLaw

I tend to think its a solid 65, but I can still hope and perhaps I get lucky! I'll probably hold it back for awhile. I'm sure PCGS is going to get more then few stunning peace dollars being submitted with the St. Louis show coming up and in comparision that could hurt me.

A 66 is a decent jump in price. Most 65s are $75-$100 and 66s are $400+. Lets just say I'm close to the 65 price range. If it dumps to a 64, then I'll have lost a nice amount.

I've already had a offer from the losing bidder to take it off my hands for a tidy profit. I think he was displeased, I sniped it with about 3 seconds to go.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Michael

MW Fattorosi Collection

MAULUMALL

I would be happy to give 65 money for it.
(you can take that as an offer)

BigD5

Judging by the lack of marks and the strike, I don't think you would have any problem with that coin being a 65 in anyone's holder. A 66? Can't tell from the scan. The only distracting thing would be the toning "spot" above Liberty's eye, into the hair. That may be considered a "negative", as far as eye appeal goes, and prevent a bump to 66. The coin looks very nice. This is a clear example of where you can pick up this "common" coin for $75 or so, but your piece I would imagine would command a premium over that figure, even if it's "only" a 65. Very pretty.

gsaguy

Michael,

That's a really handsome piece and I don't think you'd have any problem getting it crossed to PCGS. The luster on that coin is really remarkable. As for the grade, depends on what side of the bed the finalizer got up on that day.

I'd not risk damaging the coin by cracking it out of the ANACS holder and would submit it as is.

Good luck!

GSAGUY

P.S. I've attached a scan of my one and only toned Peace dollar. What do you think?

rkfish

Michael,

That's a very nice looking Peace dollar. I believe as others that it would cross to pcgs or ngc as a 65 with a shot at 66. The toning looks nice and is very difficult to find on Peace dollars. I agree with GSA on this....send it in to cross in the anacs holder.

GSA,

Couldn't get your link to work.....would like to see the peace dollar!

09sVDB

I crossed my 32D Washington in AU58 from Anacs to PCGS.

gsaguy

Second try on getting that the Peace dollar pic posted.

And third attempt!

Sorry guys.....loose nut in front of the computer.

GSAGUY

rkfish

GSA,

I feel your pain about the "loose nut" in front of the computer!

That is a really neat looking Peace dollar. Vivid colors! These are difficult to find with this type of color. I have a few in my set that have neat antique/copper rim toning....a 23d that I just purchased from Pinnacle that has the "look" I like and I'm working on a 26s from Pinnacle that has burnt orange toning on the obverse with the center being a frosty white. Neat looking coin! Neither have the "vivid" color but are extremely nice!

Thanks for the pic! I can get em up on the site, I just haven't learned how to capture the clors in the pics yet.

ArtR

Gsaguy,
That is one wild Peace Dollar!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TONEDDOLLARS

Why should it matter whos holder its in. I think its all about the coin. Is it not????

BigD5

Agreed Toneddollars, but if you were selling that coin, which holder would command more money? The state of the market, in a way. Wouldn't you agree?
I think that's just the way things go right now. A knowledgeable collector would pick that coin up regardless of the holder. PCGS, NGC only collectors would never get to enjoy such a coin, nevermind the Registry collectors.

boiler78

If you submit the coin in the slab the most likely scenerio would be a cross to PCGS 65. I doubt if PCGS would upgrade this coin in the ANACS holder. If you crack it and submit raw whats the downside? If your trying for a 66 the odds are much better if you submit raw.

TONEDDOLLARS

I have paid strong money for coins in ICG, ANACS NGC and PCGS. In all cases I bought the coin not the holder. If I paid strong money for a particular coin regardless of the holder I am sure there will be someone else who will do the same.
If the coin resides in a PCGS or NGC holder I will add it to my registry sets. You can believe me when I say I do not need any grading company to tell me if the coin is OK. To me the holder adds protection to the coin from damage, first and foremost. The grade applided by a third party is secondary. If I think the coin has the color and grade then it will be mine.
I own a 87-o proof like dollar in ms-65 that has marvelous toning with bag weave across the obverse. it is in a ICG holder. The coin is a 65 no matter what holder its in. Do you think I really care if somebody would turn their back on this coin because of the holder. I would bet anyone who has seen this coin would love to own it.
So again I say its all about the coin. If its all there it will bring stong money.

jack

gsaguy

Jack,

I've seen that coin (the 87-O) and I'd love to own it, but then there's that issue of the ICG holder. Okay, I'll do you a favor and take it off your hands even though it is in the ICG holder.

With friends like me....ahhh!

GSAGUY

TONEDDOLLARS

Bryan

Very considerate offer I by you. Let me get back to you on that

gsaguy

I'll hold my breath until you decide.

GSAGUY

braddick

TDN: Carry the discussion one point farther: What if the "right" coin was in the "wrong" holder, say PCI? Or, ACG?
I understand what you mean about chasing after the coin, no matter the 'format' (raw or graded out) but some like the security of knowing others- others they respect- also give the coin the 'nod' of approval.
I know I do.

TONEDDOLLARS

Braddick

What is the wrong holder? to many on these boards ICG is the eqivilent to PCI or SEGS. If the coin is all there and is what I'm looking for, I will buy it.

I think it is only fair to say that at this time I do not own anysuch coins (PCI SEGS). This I feel is because I have not found one in these holders that interest me.

Why do you think that is?

braddick

It's why I placed it in quotes.
Some would have you think SEGS and/or PCI and/or NTC and on and on... are the "wrong" holder. Some avoid even looking at the COIN within that holder.

I'm still curious what you would do should you happen to stumble on, say a SEGS MS65 Trade dollar that looks spectacular.
Pass or play?

TONEDDOLLARS

I also should add that to each is own. If someone else needs third party confirmation thats ok. I just do not feel that way.I'll take the coin for what it is.

As a matter of fact I'll take anyone of GSAGUY's dollars that he has in his uncertified holders anyday, sight UNSEEN

TONEDDOLLARS

I'm sorry . I did not answere your question. I would play, and probaly for a lot less money . If the coin was all there I would pay for it though

gsaguy

Jack,

Thanks for that compliment.....but you'll first have to wait for my carcass to cool off!

GSAGUY

BigD5

I would imagine in your "market", the certifier doesn't matter as much, as say a 1913 T1 buffalo nickel in ms/66, Toneddollars. I wasn't asking of your personal buying preferences, so much as the "general market" state of purchasing. In my example above, do you believe an ICG example would fetch the same money as a pcgs slabbed example? Maybe once out of 10 times. Call that what you want, but my point was, that is the tendency in the market. It may be different for different segments, your toned dollars obviously aren't included, but, in general, I think I'm correct.

*By the way, I buy coins in almost any holder!!!!!

FrattLaw

As for the holder, it is immaterial since if I was purchasing the coin for my registry set, it would end up in a PCGS slab. But I do respect the opinions of other grading services on a coin-by-coin basis when purchasing Non-PCGS. As for the peace I just bought, I agree with ANACS, it's probably a 65. If it were in a PCI, SEGS or god-forbid AGC slab @ 65, it would make me take a strong 2,3,4, and 5th look. As well as question the $$$ being asked for the coin.

Personally, if I knew I was going to try to cross the coin, I would expect a 1-2 pt deduction with some of the less respected services. Of course that's a generalization and it would depend on each coins strengths and weaknesses. But that's how I would go in looking at the coin.

Those that shy away from other services good end up missing out on some really nice coins. I always search for coins not in NGC or PCGS slabs. A raw coin, I maybe a little weary of until I can vastly improve on my grading abilities.

As for this dollar, I'm probably going to find away to crack it out and send it in raw. I also think that PCGS graders might be influenced by a ANACS grade. I'll have to practice on a junk ANACS slab first, but it can't be that hard. Without cracking it out, I know it won't go 66. I just hope I don't get a grader on a bad day and it comes back a 64.

As for gsaguys peace - just an amazing coin. Where did you find that one and can you explain the toning on it. Also, what should I avoid when bying toned peace dollars ie - telltale signs of AT?

So I guess my Peace is a Keeper!

Thanks for anyone's help and comments!

Michael

MW Fattorosi Collection

TONEDDOLLARS

My answere is always slanted towards toned dollars for this is my love in coin collecting. I do appreciate all coins., and know that everyone has their own tastes. I agree that PCGS and NGC coins will almost always bring more money in other series and also in my series (morgans).

I guess I just have to see the coin and then decide if it is for me. Am I willing to pay a premium for it regardless of what holder its in? I have in the past and probaly will in the future.

IrishMike

Don't crack it out, at least try once to see if it crosses. I see no reason by the pixs that it wouldn't.

FrattLaw

Mike - I guess I could try to cross it in the slab, but if it doesn't then I'll have to resubmit raw. That maybe a little too much $$ invested in a 65 if it comes back the same grade. I'll have to think about it.

What experience has others had with crossing from ANACS as well as cracking out and sending the coin raw? I'm guessing I have a better chance at an upgrade if the coin is raw though.

Thanks
Michael


MW Fattorosi Collection

BigE

Michael, just check the coin under a micoscope, and make sure there has never been a swipe with a jewelers cloth in the past that the toning might be covering up, look for very fine hairline scratches-----if none then go for it-----but check for these first, obverse and reverse----------------BigE

supercoin

FrattLaw, that's a great looking Peace dollar! If you're not fully sure of what you're doing, I would go with what others have recommended... try a crossover first. I would do a "cross at any grade" then you'll know if they see any problems that prevent it from holdering. You can always crack it out again if you don't like the grade.

PS -- If that sounds expensive relative to what you paid... then I think you got a better deal than you thought on that coin.

FrattLaw

BigE - I just bought a 20X stereo microscope @ Long Beach just for this purpose. I plan to study the surface of that coin before sending it in. Hopefully there's no hairlines.

Supercoin - I thought all grading on non-moderns was $30 a shot. After realizing that its only $15 for economy I think I will try a cross @ any grade and see what I get. Your right, I can always try again. I suppose if the coin does have a shot @ 66 I should try a couple of times before giving up. The price increase is worth the investment.

Again, thanks for all the great advice.

Michael

MW Fattorosi Collection