It seems difficult to find uncleaned Barber halves and quarters

clw54

I just came back from a small coin show and was browsing through a binder of Barbers. Every one I looked at through a magnifyer had hairlines on it like it had had been rubbed by something abrasive. It seems like we go through different stages as collectors, beginning with not recognizing cleaned coins. Now I wonder if I'm thinking every thing is cleaned when it's not.

09sVDB

I know exactly how you feel. I will only buy from a few online dealers and am very critical of the coins I look at when I do go to shows. The one dealer that I buy most of my stuff from online gaurentee's that the raw coins I buy will certify at or above the grades purchased at. You may pay a little more for his coins, but you are getting a gaurentee and no hassles. As a matter of fact, one certified coin I have submitted for crossover to PCGS has even upgraded.

BigD5

You're correct, most have been cleaned. Same with a lot of seated stuff out there. That's why every once in a while you will see some common (relatively) older coin selling for what seems to be silly money, but because it's original, and uncleaned, the demand is HUGE, and it will get the premium being asked, if within reason. You can see the same type of things at shows with raw copper. Seemingly large discounts on "problem" pieces, with the problem free stuff being offered at premium dough. I had a better date barber quarter a few months back certified by anacs as vf/20. I think I actually talked another board member out of the coin, because the coin had obvious hairlines, and had been wiped at one time. Nothing drastic, but there. At that point you have to make a decision to use the coin as a "filler", or wait for an original, uncleaned piece.

clw54

They didn't look unattractive to me, and a few months ago I would have bought one just for the heck of it. They were mostly under $10, so it's no big deal. But after hanging out here for a year, I'm trying to be more picky and avoid the impulse buys. Probably should have picked one up and given it to my nephew. I'm trying to cultivate a future numismatist.

keithdagen

Claw,

2 months ago at a show, I went around and looked to fill out my Mercury Dime album. I spent a coupel of hours looking for a 26-S in low grade (minor key), and rejected 30 examples in the GD to VG range for cleaning. I settled on a VF, because that was the only original piece I could find. I have some dealers I can get uncleaned Barbers from, but the selection varies, so it is taking a lot of time to fill the albums out.

Nic

Most older coins have been cleaned/overly dipped. It seems to only get worse with time, for the majority of collectors like "white". K

OnlyBuffalos

My collecting interest is primarily circulated Barber halves. My experience is that the very large majority of circulated halves graded F to XF have been cleaned. Those grading AU have been dipped at least once. Many AU coins have minimal wear but have been dipped to the point where little if any luster remains.

The grading services appear to accept dipped Barber halves and lightly cleaned halves as well.

I also find that grade creap has hit circulated Barber halves as well. Many coins that are F15/F18 are sold as VF 20/30 coins. Barber halves are among the easiest coins to grade so in my opinion there is no excuse for this to be happening. Most Ebay Barber halves are not accurately graded at present.

Uncleaned, not dipped Barber halves are not available for many dates. I think the primary reasons are that many dates just do not age attractively and collectors feel that cleaning/dipping makes them look better and second, many were melted during the silver boom.

I would be intersted in what others think.

Dog97

You are not going to find many original Barbers because me and several other board members are quitely buying them all up. If you were looking at circs just don't confuse hairlines from circulation with wear. The white shiny ones most likely have been cleaned that's why I like my circs to have the light black or dark fields with the device elements worn lighter.

clw54

Dog, the lines might be from circulation. The hairlines I saw seemed to all run in the same direction, and there were a lot of them. It was one of those times when I wish somebody more knowledgable was there with me to look at them and say for sure what they were.

Dog97

I used to hang out in a mom&pop type shop on the weekends and bs with the owner & watch the shop while he ran errands etc. The old man used those small bottles of coin cleaner like you see in the accessory dept of hobby stores and a small bronze brush to clean circ barbers mercs etc and make year sets in the plastic Whitman holders. I asked him why he did it and he said it's just 1$ common junk coins that he makes sets to sell for $6, so what? I mean man these things sold like hotcakes, mostly for birthday presents and old granny ladies used to buy 10 at a time for their grandkids. You could always tell these coins because they had all the hairlines going in straight lines in the same direction.
Thanks & regards, D97

ARCO

Finally some Barber talk! When I first started collecting the local dealer told me that he believed that 90% of all silver coins have undergone some cleaning or other. After a few coin shows and some time on Ebay, I thought he missed the mark by 9.9%, when it came to barbers.

Barbers can be found in original condition with a lot of searching in G-VF. Pop up to XF-AU and you can spend a whole lifetime looking for a complete set of wholly original coins with nice eye appeal in those grades. I personally feel that a truly original AU barber half set is impossible in one's lifetime. 10 years minimum for an original XF set. In three years collecting I have come across what I believe to be four truly original and untouched Barber halves in AU. ALL were common dates except a very nice 1894-O in a PCGS holder.

As a collector I have come to accept lightly cleaned coins, as long as the hairlines are very light, and don't have that uniform direction pattern that makes them look so bad. Even coins with that great two-tone contrasting color sometimes are lightly rubbed which adds light hairlines, but still retains most of the original color. I consider them collectable, and handsome examples even if deep down I sense they have been lightly cleaned or messed with.

In barbers, a collector may have to make some concessions to enjoy collecting them. Here are some examples of what I look for in determining originality and cleaned coins.

1914 Barber Half, 100 Original, Dark toned

1913-S Barber Half 100 % original, Antique silver, lightly toned

1910 Barber Half, original color, with light hairlines

1898-O Barber Half, cleaned and retoning. No hairlines

There are many more variances in cleaned coins. Mostly, if you like the coin, even if not wholly original, buy it!

Cleaned, but very cool album toning

Tyler

Dog97

Hey those are cool. Why do you say the 98-O is cleaned? Just because the field isn't black doesn't mean that it's cleaned.

ARCO

Dog - I have been of the opinion that truly original coins leave a set toning pattern. The coloring may be light to dark, but the dirt seems to spread heaviest in the protected devices and lighter in the more open fields, thus creating a contrasting spread as it gets closer into the fields, much like those High school art days where one would practice creating depth by the levels of shading.

Whenever I see a coin with dark, solid, very tight concentric rings around the protected devices (in this case the outer stars) with nearly uniform colored fields, I tend to lean towards an old (light) cleaning that removed some of the easier to get at dirt, but leaving the gunk closest to the most protected parts of the coin.

While it may be questionable as to its status as wholly original or not, I just personally feel that someone may have done some cleaning at some point, and perhaps it is just my opinion since I have not ever cleaned a coin and retoned it over the years to see the effects.

Here are some examples:

1913-S with changing shades

1900-O with light fields and Remnants of original gunk seen as tight circles around stars

What do you think?

Tyler

Dog97

Hey I'm the picky critical butthead and I think you are being too harsh on your Barbers! You may be right but I think it has more to do with how long the coin circulated & what it was exposed to.
For example your "cleaned" coins may have circulated down to XF then been put away in a drawer for years and turned black then were circulated again wearing some of the black toning off. Your 00-O may have quickly circulated down to FINE without having the chance to tone heavily and was then put away in a safe environment where it never toned any further.

ARCO

Good points Dog. I too have wondered what some coins that were pulled and later recirculated would look like compared to coins stuck in circulation and constantly worn. Doesn't seem there would be as much time for the dirt to build up and create the darker toning as seen on other coins that were circulated in spurts.

For me however, if there are no hairlines and the coin has nice eye appeal, then it mostly is unimportant if the coin is technically original or not, but it is sure challenging to speculate and deduce what causes what toning.

I sure love the original look, combined with years stuck in an album getting those great looking contrasting shades. For me that is apex of cool toning

1899-O album toning + original color!!

wingedliberty

The most cleaned series are Barbers and Bust. I agree 100% percent. About 85% of all PCGS/NGC
Barber and Bust material have all been cleaned at one time. On a different note, I would not mind
seeing other photos of Empress Jayne.



Brian.