White spots on MS Silver Eagles

humvee7e

Does anyone know if anything can be done on MS Silver Eagles that are developing white spots? They are in PCGS holders and were spot free when I originally received them from PCGS. Over time, I'm noticing white spots on a few of them. Does this affect the MS69 grade?

TheNumish

Same thing happens to me. I would never send a coin in with a bunch of white spots and then all the sudden I look at my coins and there they are. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Makes the coins hard to sell and even harder for me to look at.

Hey Humvee didn't you get the 1996 Silver eagle or were you looking for more than 1?

coppercoins

Any chance those could have been dipped at one time and what you are seeing is a result of that? Seems odd to me.

TheNumish

I've never dipped silver eagles before sending them in. My personal theory is when PCGS blows air on the coins to get dust off or whatever is on the coin before putting them in the holder there is something in the mixture that reacts on the coins. No proof just a feeling. PCGS says their holders are inert and don't effect the coins. I'm sure they believe this but too many of my modern proof coins and silver eagles change after being encapsulated. I sent in several hundred proof gold commems to NGC for a customer and didn't have that probem. They are doing something differentat NGC than PCGS and I wish PCGS would figure it out.

BSqr

uh oh. I've used canned air on my gold and silver after dipping. I haven't observed any negative side effects (Yet). It hasn't been that long ago however.

Also, I thought I read somewhere about this problem with the SAE and spot formation. I know there was a serious probkem with circulation proofs where the mint had to destroy several hundred thousand proof sets dating from 99-01. But I think that the Mint attributed the problems to storage conditions. I know I really haven't shed any light oon the topic but hey I felt like ramblin.

Beatlemen

I got a spotty 1999 SAE with white spots. when I first got it, it was clean. I kept it in one of the plastic airtite holders. I just don't understand. My other silver eagles are kept in the same holders and they don't have spots. How can you get rid of the spots?

HoundDog

Hi, from what I think I understand, the "Milk Spots" are caused from a die lube, from the mint. Once the spots show up, they are there to stay. It is almost like a form a toning, only it goes deeper than just the surface. It is like it has "soaked into the coin".

I don't really know what triggers the spots to show up. I have tried different things with cheap BU Silver Eagles, to try and find out what caused the triggering of the spots showing up. I haven't found anthing yet.

The Double Box system, for slabbs hasn't been out long enough for me to tell about those yet.

Here is what I have found out. You can dip, or even SOAK, and totally RUIN, a Milk Spotted SE and the spots are still there !

They show up at the same rate, if I leave test coins in my garage ( I live in the Dallas area, so I am not next to coast ) 100+ in the summer, 20-30 in the winter, maybe lower. I am out far enough, we have coyotes, and birds of prey, so air pollution, shouldn't be a problem.

They show up at the same rate, if I leave them in the house, even in PCGS boxes with silica gel packets.

But here is the real bad news. They show up at the same rate even in my saftey deposit box. Slabbed, Raw, or in Air Tights, even with the silica gel.

I have noticed that the spots show up more in PCGS slabs. The NGC slabs, it kind of runs, instead of spots, and get this ICG has shown the least problems. This maybe because I don't have as many ICG slabbed Silver Eagles.

From what I have found, once they are there, they are there for good !

If anyone finds something that works, or even better yet, what causes it to show up, please post it.

HoundDog

I don't know if they effect the grade or not. I would think not, as toned coins are not suposed to effect the grade, so I would think the same about the milk spots.

It sure does effect the eye apeal though.

SarasotaFrank

I have a number of these coins which were foisted (is that a word?) off on me by a dealer who gave me so much of a hard time about exchanging them, I said it wasn't worth the aggrevation. These were unc's, as opposed to proofs. I have them in intercept shield 2 x 2's, but in my opinion, they have zero eye appeal and I will probably give them to some of the sons and daughters of my friends who have expressed an interest in coins.

HoundDog

I understand, but eye apeal is a personal thing.

For example, I am not into toned coins, in general, but I have seen some beauties. IMHO, those are few and far between, but that is just my opinion.

I am the most interested in finding out what causes the spots and what causes the "triggering" making them show up, instead of how to get rid of them, which I have found to be impossable.

I know that this would completely distroy a coin, but I would like to sandblast one slowly ( a junker of course), look at it, sandblast it some more, just to see how deep the spotting really goes. I would measure the thickness of the coin with a caliper set before, and each time.

I will continue to experment on milk spot thing, both trying to find out what causes them to show up, and what will get rid of them with out damaging the coin. If I find out anything good, be rest assured, I will be happy to post it.

clackamas

It has to effect grade. Once eye appeal diminishes it will effect grade. Carbon spots which are probably mint related on Lincolns does effect grade in a negative way. Crack out your MS69 SAE with the now present milk spots, I bet it does not come back a 69 again. I have had 1 SAE that was stored in a humid environment, air in Oregon, that did develop Milk spots, but others stored properly have never developed the spots.

wallstreetman

Sure they affect the grade, why do you think the 94 and 96 SAE in PCGS MS69 are so high priced, you cant find them without spots!

chiefbob

So, if you buy a 94 or 96 in MS69 without spots, is there a big risk that they will develop spots later on? Or is there a time factor
involved, whereby the spots will show up after so many years?

I think the die lube problem as mentioned in an earlier post makes sense. I checked my mint 94 and 96 and they have some minor milk spots on the obverse. I have not seen this on the reverse, however. If the die lube could only get on the obverse die, then that theory seems plausible. I have a bunch of eagles I bought from the Mint since 1986, and put them in either Airtite or Eagle holders. They were all stored in the same environment (humid, as I was stationed in DC, Georgia and Texas). Yet, not all "developed" the spots.

Bob