corroded 09-S VDB

clackamas

Link

Prehaps I should learn to read more closely. He said it was genuine not fake.

Cam40

ya,it looks like someone took a nice `09S and added` VDB `on the reverse.

goose3

read it again.
the way I read it, he says that it was rejected because of some corrosion and that they said it was genuine

Dog97

<<I called PCGS and they said because of the reason they rejected it that it was a genuine 1909 S VDB.>>
Do what?

Russ

For the ignorant among us, (namely me), what are the diagnostics that indicate it's a fake?

Russ, NCNE

HoundDog

I am no penny expert by no means, but to me, it looks like the V.D.B. is off center, to the left. It sure is closer to left wheat stack, than the right. Maybe that is normal ? I don't think so Tim

coppercoins

It's not normal. In fact, the VDB should be quite a bit farther to the right than it is. I would definately call this one into suspition, but it seems much easier (and cheaper) to take a genuine 1909P VDB and just add the single letter...why go to the extra trouble to add two more letters?

One reason is that it's easier for people to fake, considering the curviture of the rim area...perhaps I'm on to something? Still, it seems odd that anyone would chance ruining a somewhat decent $20 coin to try turning it into a much more valuable one...but there you have the risk.

commoncents

My 09-svdb has about the same placement of the "vdb". I'll try to attach scans.

Coppernicus

Coppernicus

Coppernicus

Sorry about my two "blanks" (above) but I think now I can add something to this thread. The VDB is, IMHO, correctly placed so if this is not a genuine 09-S VDB then it must be the added "S'.

Clackamas (Brian) I looked at this auction several times before it closed and I stayed away because I couldn't figure out what the he11 the description meant! PCGS body bagged it because it was genuine?!? See what I mean?

I hope the transaction wasn't too painful, and I'm still looking for the 09-S VDB for my registry set, but I have to at least understand what the seller is trying to sell!

Coppernicus (Mike) - mensa0 on ebay

Coppernicus

Afterthought - The best way to determine if the VDB is properly placed is to hold a straight edge down the left side of the "N" in ONE. The straight edge should align with the left edge of the D in VDB. An old-time diagnostic taught to me by an old-time Lincoln expert collector.

Coppernicus

dorkkarl

russ, in order of what i look for , the diagnostics for a genuine svdb are

(1) on the vdb, the middle crossbard of the "B" slants , lower on the left, a little higher on the right. if you don't see this , immediately reject the coin becuase guaranteed it's a "S" added to a 1909-vdb. this diagnostic is effective even in low grades. in my experience, it will give away 95% of the fakes

(2) on a real coin, the serifs of the "S" are both perfectly vertical & parallel (sp?) to each other. again, visible even in lower grades.

(3) inside the upper loop of the "S", near the back is usually a raised "dot", which is a little die-chip. it might not be there on a real one, but i bet it's on 75% of the coins

i generally feel comfortable identifying the real thing, but my 3 little "hints" will NOT make anyone an expert, including me. if you're in the slightest unsure, GET IT CERTIFIED BY PCGS, NGC, ANACS, SEGS OR ICG ONLY. i own 6 counterfeits that i use for comparison purposes, & knock on wood, as far as i know, i haven't been swindled yet.

K S

dorkkarl

the positioning of the VDB & "S" look consistent w/ a genuine coin.

K S

sinin1

You guys have covered added/altered but haven't said an awful lot about die-struck copies. There were only 4 obverse dies that struck the true 1909-S VDB and knowing each of those is needed for diagnostics on whether this coin is authentic. PCGS would have body bagged it because of the corrosion on the reverse - ANACS would probably net grade it and the smaller certifiying companies praised it. In light of the recent 1877-S find and submission to PCGS, I only expect it to be a matter of time until a 1909 Indian head VDB mule is found (or how about an 1877 VDB wheatback?). And why would someone try to alter a perfectly good $20 coin? to make it a $500 sale.

JeffinMich

I don't collect Lincolns, but regardless of being geniune of not, is that an XF coin? Looks VF at best to me.

dorkkarl

with the assurance of a 100% moneyback guarantee, AND confidence in being able to authenticate the coin, i would buy it as FINE $ and no more. these coins are available in problem-free VF+ grades, which i think it grades otherwise.

K S