agentjim007 and coinguy1 i have an idea ?

CLASSICS · October 9, 2002 10:34AM

agentjim007 thanks for the heads up.....mark, coinguy1 , are these your coins, and do any of them belong to dlrc. if they are than this seller is committing fraud , dont wait on ebay, you might get an answer in 30 days or so, trust me , i have been thru the ebay song and dance show with crap like this.... iam the one who did the smackdown on ebay before with several thieves...... if these are your coins, so help me god, i will hit the buy it now botton....NOW !.... and have this bullsh#t stopped. ...

sinin1 · October 9, 2002 10:37AM

I agree and if they are your coins - you could have cops meet them and throw them in jail - ebay probably won't do anything and they also won't get any money from them for all the listing fees - cuz they'll be long gone.

Russ · October 9, 2002 10:43AM

It is not fraud unless and until a transaction occurs. At this point, it is only unauthorized use of images. Law enforcement would do nothing.

Hopefully, eBay will toast him before anyone actually sends money.

Russ, NCNE

coinguy1 · October 9, 2002 10:44AM

Ron and sinin1,

As much as I despise the seller for what he is apparently trying to do, his only crime so far is misappropriating images from dealer web sites. I and others have sent messages to him and Ebay. If nothing is done by tomorrow, I will do something else.

Keep in mind, he is trying to sell "uncertified coins" (with images of certified coins) mostly at big numbers. It is unlikely that they will sell, though I do realize how naive some Ebayers can be.

goose3 · October 9, 2002 10:49AM

Russ,
I don't know about law enforcement in your area but if someone came to our place and said their neighbor was trying to sell THEIR property online using a picture of thier property where it can be easily seen that it is Thier property, I'd have to say we'd do something about it.

Russ · October 9, 2002 10:59AM

Goose3,

The problem here is that literally hundreds of sellers use "stock" coin photos that they may, or may not, have produced themselves. Even if law enforcement were to look in to it, this guy would just say "well, I don't have a camera so I borrowed some pictures". That would be the end of it, unless a transaction actually happens.

I wish it were otherwise, but that's the sad reality.

Russ, NCNE

coinguy1 · October 9, 2002 11:00AM

Ron,

I was just looking at the title of this thread. If someone doesn't read the thread itself, it could look like Jim and I are BAD people!

Goose, technically, the Ebay seller isn't trying to sell others' property (as he doesn't have possession of it). He is representing that he has something for sale which he does not have. Big difference legally, though I assure you, I find him as offensive as you do.

Placid · October 9, 2002 11:02AM

Link to the auctions. for those that missed the other thread.

If you add up all the buy it now prices it's about $400,000

CLASSICS · October 9, 2002 11:07AM

mark only trying to help, but if this seller is using yours or anyone elses pictures to sell coins that dont belong to him, that is intent to comit fraud., and the folks on this forum know you and they know you would not do anything dishonest. ron

goose3 · October 9, 2002 11:11AM

Mark,
if you came and saw me or called me and this was going on where I work, I can assure you that I would go pay this guy a visit and lay it out there and see what he has to say at the Very least!!!!Maybe it's because we tend to get involved in more things since we are small and have more time for such stuff.

Call it a civil matter or whatever for now. He is attempting to sell items that do not belong to him and that he does not have possession of. he has not stated that these are "stock photos" or anything of the likes. I do agree though that if he would have posted the cert. numbers that more likely than not any police agency Would attempt to help.

CLASSICS · October 9, 2002 11:14AM

<< <i>Ron,

I was just looking at the title of this thread. If someone doesn't read the thread itself, it could look like Jim and I are BAD people!

Goose, technically, the Ebay seller isn't trying to sell others' property (as he doesn't have possession of it). He is representing that he has something for sale which he does not have. Big difference legally, though I assure you, I find him as offensive as you do. >>

mark, yes i see what you mean , so i changed the title.....thanks, for letting me know, ron

CLASSICS · October 9, 2002 11:23AM

<< <i>Mark,
if you came and saw me or called me and this was going on where I work, I can assure you that I would go pay this guy a visit and lay it out there and see what he has to say at the Very least!!!!Maybe it's because we tend to get involved in more things since we are small and have more time for such stuff.

Call it a civil matter or whatever for now. He is attempting to sell items that do not belong to him and that he does not have possession of. he has not stated that these are "stock photos" or anything of the likes. I do agree though that if he would have posted the cert. numbers that more likely than not any police agency Would attempt to help. >>

if you all deceide to pay this guy a visit, i want to go along.

BigE · October 9, 2002 11:31AM

I stole 2 sweet 66 commems from Coinguy, I am just glad he didnt steal them from someone else

Thanks Coinguy for a sweet deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-------BigE

coinguy1 · October 9, 2002 11:33AM

BigE - make sure no one confuses you with this infamous Ebay seller!

BigE · October 9, 2002 11:43AM

Oh boy, this is getting complicated

---------BigE

rkfish · October 9, 2002 12:21PM

Someone has met the reserve on one of these coins.......geezzzz

jamesfsm · October 9, 2002 12:54PM

Russ:

Please stop practicing law here.

To prove criminal fraud, the prosecutor needs to prove an intent to defraud another out of money through a scheme or artifice. No transaction need be proven although the prosecutor will have a bit easier time if one is.

JAMES

beartracks42 · October 9, 2002 1:06PM

i just pulled up the auctions and the two that I saw, were titled "INVALID" by Ebay. Maybe they got the message.

its4real · October 9, 2002 1:19PM

done deal:

Items for Sale by masterful-collections(0)
View text-only format
0 items found.

All items

Auctions

Buy It Now

Picture hide Item Title Price Bids Time (Ends PDT)
This seller is not currently offering any items for sale.

dorkkarl · October 9, 2002 8:01PM

<< <i>It is not fraud unless and until a transaction occurs. At this point, it is only unauthorized use of images. Law enforcement would do nothing. >>

would'nt it be copyright infringement? or would it be too difficult to prove they are the same images, just "enhanced" a little?

K S

presleyh · October 9, 2002 9:15PM

Copyright infringement? You've got to be kidding!
call a lawyer sometime and tell him you want to defend a copyright. Lets start with a couple of thousand retainer fee and work it through the federal court system for about 7 years and spend another 15 grand.Copyrights and patents are great concepts, but in reality only poloroid and Ford motor company sized outfits can afford to defend them.

nwcs · October 9, 2002 9:52PM

OK, time for a software developer to chime in. :-) Depending on the server you use, it is VERY possible to set up the web server to disallow use of photography outside your domain. That is, to make it so that someone cannot use an image tag pointing to a picture in your domain. And you can limit it to different directories so that you could have a set directory for ebay items and when they're gone, you delete the image. Prevents the problem by eliminating the temptation.

If you are using Microsoft Internet Information Server, PM me and I'll give you some tips on how to do this. If you use a hosting company, ask them to restrict your image directory to your domain and create a new image directory to be open to use by anyone (as all your images are now).

Neil

Russ · October 10, 2002 1:39AM

<< <i>To prove criminal fraud, the prosecutor needs to prove an intent to defraud another out of money through a scheme or artifice. >>

jamesfsm,

First, your statement assumes that a prosecutor would ever see an offense that has gone no further than this. That assumption is wishful thinking since no law enforcement agency is going to arrest the guy for borrowing pictures.

Building on the above, and assuming the fairy tale scenario that he actually did get arrested and charged, how exactly would the prosecutor prove intent? The guy borrowed pictures. So what? It happens constantly.

One does not need to have a law degree to see that, at this point, the cops wouldn't do a thing. All one needs is a little common sense.

It's now moot anyway, since eBay did the right thing and nuked the guy.

Russ, NCNE

agentjim007 and coinguy1 i have an idea ?

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