article on Ebay and fraud

raredeal

The old adage of "buyer beware" is proven true once again!

Linky

TheNumish

Pretty good article. Ebay really needs to take care of fraud right away. The excuse that the system is so big or most complaints don't warrant action doesn't hold up. They really need to get rid of the bad guys right away or they will multiply like vermin.

How many people on here have been victims of fraud on ebay? Don't include shill bidding but where you actually lost money.

MosesBlack

I used to buy and sell often on Ebay as (moses_black). I just got tired of competing with power selling crooks. Ebay will do absolutely nothing if you are a large account and probably nothing anyway unless you are doing something which reduces their profits.

I give ebay a year or two at the most until they go the way of enron. Even though the number of suckers in the world is large, it is a finite number.

Russ

<< <i>“I suspended (a power seller) who had over 1,200 auctions going on … after I found over 47 emails the guy was using to shill his auctions,” he said. “To put it bluntly, the s—- hit the fan. I got a call … saying I wasn’t allowed to do that anymore.” >>



The most telling paragraph in the entire article.

Russ, NCNE

Tonekiller

Not all Power sellers are crooks and lets not forget all the buyers that give it a try at credit card and check fraud. No one every seems to talk about the 3%-4% we (TBT) write off a bad debt or theft each month for fraud. IMHO

Russ

<< <i>No one every seems to talk about the 3%-4% we (TBT) write off a bad debt or theft each month for fraud. >>



TBT,

As one who deals with the problem on a daily basis during the course of my regular business, I completely understand your POV on the issue. The average eBay buyer has no concept of how many fraud attempts are made against internet vendors. Those who scream, whine and yell about what jerks sellers are for taking protective measures are completely clueless.

That said, my bone of contention is with eBay, not individual sellers. Their whole attitude and approach seems to favor the less savory seller as long as that seller is generating enough revenue.

But, eBay is not alone in that. Visa and Mastercard are just as bad. I gave up long ago trying to report fraud attempts to them. They don't give a rat's ass one way or the other, since - the way the system is setup - it literally costs them nothing.

Russ, NCNE

dorkkarl

i agree w/ the article that shill-bidding is far & away the most blatant problem. one would think it would also be 1 of the easiest to address, by simply comparing contact infor &/or IP packet addresses. it should be a 1-strike-your-out sort of thing.

K S

Tonekiller

Theft is theft. Why should a person stealing from a retail store be incarcerated if the same does not apply to internet fraud. It is very had for both sellers and buyers to seek recourse without going the extra mile of collections or court.

Petescorner

No one every seems to talk about the 3%-4% we (TBT) write off a bad debt or theft each month for fraud.

TBT, I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but I'm curious how you could have so much bad debt through eBay. If someone doesn't pay you, then you don't ship the item, right? You get hit with Listing fees and End Of Auction fees, but even if you don't pursue getting them back from eBay, you still would have to have almost 90% non-paying bidders to have 4% bad debt, wouldn't you?

Again, not trying to flame, just curious how it happens.

Russ

Dan,

I can't answer specifically for TBT, but I can tell you one way it happens; bogus chargebacks. Customer pays with a credit card, receives the merchandise as they should. The vendor thinks all is well, and all of a sudden a chargeback is filed and the money removed from the business's checking account. The system automatically favors the customer, even if that customer is a crook.

Even after the vendor has jumped through all the hoops and provided the documentation that the chargeback was fraudulent, he is STILL stuck with all the fees that the merchant services company slaps on for chargebacks. If he is even lucky enough to get the money back at all.

And, that's a case where it is actually the customer's card. That doesn't include the constant attempts by the slimeball hackers using other people's cards.

Russ, NCNE

Tonekiller

Fair question,

Lets use credit card fraud. All a credit card user has to do is say they did not receive the product....Boom, and a charge back happens. We loose the cost of the product and the s/h/i all at once plus get hit with a $10-$25 charge back fee. Fake money orders are my favorite as is counterfeit cash.

Yes there are ways to ship safe and get signatures that we use but they are expensive for bulk retailers and that also means buyers.

Ultimately its comes down to the fact that if someone wants to steal they will most likely do it.

supercoin

Ditto the comments about credit cards from a sellers perspective.

For a buyer, a credit card is great. If someone steals your card, you're only out a maximum of $50.

Before I became a merchant, I always assumed the credit card company was footing the bill for the losses, out of the profits they make from charging sellers (2% or more), plus the profits from customers who carry balances on their cards (at high interest rates) not to mention various fees to customers (e.g. late fees) and merchants (e.g. exhorbitant chargeback fees).

And if the CC companies were in fact covering those losses, they would be very vigilant in prosecuting fraud, since it comes out of their bottom line.

But the sad truth is... generally the merchant who accepts the card is the guy who pays up. Bear in mind that the credit card company has a direct deposit/withdrawal link to the merchant's bank account.

This is true even when a merchant accepts a bad card in good faith, and using card-issuer supplied verification checks. Which, by the way, suck. Address verification for online payments is very primitive. And you can't find out if the address matches until after the charge is processed, which means that if doesn't match you have to go through a bunch of hoops manually to further verify it, likely ticking off your customer in the process.

This is because the card companies don't want any hurdles in the way of a customer using a card, because basically they make money no matter what. The merchants are generally left holding the bag for fraud.

And Russ is right about when you try to report fraud or attempted fraud... they literally don't want to hear it. A waste of their time.

End of rant.

gmarguli

I can recall reporting two power sellers who were suspended under previous IDs. I provided clear proof. One of the sellers was using the same business name for his new account.

For my reports I got back:

1) An email telling me that there was "insufficient evidence" to do anything.

2) Nothing.

Unless I dislike the seller I don't even bother reporting anymore. It takes too much to get them suspended.

It is 100% clear to everyone that eBay will do nothing to power screwers. eBay will change its business practices when either law enforcement or a court decision comes down on them hard. I suspect both are close to happening.

Tonekiller

I would actually agree with Greg but not as bluntly. OMG

presleyh

Its kind of strange that ebay fraud protection covers buyers only. I have been ripped off twice by buyers who received the items and cancel the credit card endorsement 2 or 3 months later. There is nothing a seller can do without the buyers signiture and a swipe of the actual credit card. I dont take credit cards anymore over the phone or internet. In one case it was too late to get the final value fees back. I still think ebay is a very worthwhile venture. I have sold items to south africa on ebay, that would never happen any other way.