Need Help from Peace People - Opinions on PCGS vs. NGC Peace Registry Set

FrattLaw

Now that I finishing up my modern Ike, SBA & Sac sets, I am starting to turn my attention to more classic silver dollars. My next set planned is the Peace series. I am starting to research the various types and grades, prices, mintages, ect. Any useful reference books I should read?

However, before I start I am considering a NGC set instead of a PCGS set. With my funds, I could not even begin to compete for the top spots, probably in either registry. MS 60-65 is probably my range depending on year.

So I'm left with a choice between PCGS or NGC. I realize NGC allows PCGS certs, so I could technically still purchase both. Obviously if I'm going with PCGS, I won't want to waste funds on NGC coins, unless I was looking to cross.

For those that do collect Peace dollars, which is easier to find, NGC or PCGS peace dollars, is there a preminum for PCGS, if so how much? Do SEGS or ANACS coins cross or are these overgraded as a whole? Are NGC Peaces for the most part overgraded?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Michael

JJacks

Michael,

I am not an expert here, but I have a few opinions on this subject. I suggest you wait for opinions from some of the Peace $ gurus on this board such as PQPeace and Rkfish (hopefully they will see your post) before deciding for sure.

I am working on a PCGS Peace $ Registry set. I am hoping to get around the 10th-11th place ranking when I am done. I am going with PCGS for several reasons. I do believe that high grade NGC Peace $s are a bit easier to find, and often go cheaper. I am just buying PCGS coins as I would prefer to get premium quality, which can probably be done with some of the other companies, but you may have to be able to buy sight-seen to be sure. I don't know for sure, but i feel like my PCGS coins would probably cross to NGC, but I am not so sure the other way around.

Whether you go with NGC or PCGS however, I do recommend that you try stick to whatever type of "Look" of Peace $ you like. Don't buy an "Ugly" one just because it is cheap in anybodys holder. You will be happier in the long run.

JJacks

PQpeace

pm sent
Larry

Zerbe

To "Baseball".
I am glad you said that was just your opinion that Peace Dollars are "butt ugly". You might also be of the opinion that Heather Locklear or Carmen Electra are " butt ugly" because that would be your opinion. I personally, collect Peace Dolllars, and I would not say they are the most beautiful coins I own, but they are certainly far, far, from being "butt ugly".
In resonse to Frattlaw, I would recommend not to mix up PCGS and NGC coins. Either make it a PCGS set or an NGC set.
For a low pop, high grade, Peace dollar, like a MS67 1935D in NGC, (pop 1) the price would be $6325 ( NY ANA, Bowers & Merena) The same coin IN PCGS would sell for a minimum of $35,000. I am only giving you this example to show the large discrepancy in prices for NGC versus PCGS Peace dollars. This large price ratio does not exist for all grades, but I think you will find the NGC coin will almost always be less than a PCGS. In the future the ratio may diminish or heaven forbid, it may reverse !!!
Zerbe

EVillageProwler

Whether you go with NGC or PCGS however, I do recommend that you try stick to whatever type of "Look" of Peace $ you like. Don't buy an "Ugly" one just because it is cheap in anybodys holder. You will be happier in the long run.

I think this is excellent advice, especially if you plan on keeping your coins for a very long time. (You can't predict the future, and you won't know how the existing services will do 20 years from now, nor how the future will assess coins graded today.)

Aside from aesthetics, I don't understand why a person can't have a mixed set of PCGS and NGC slabs -- as long as the quality of the coins is all there as per JJ's advice.

EVP

PQpeace

I hope baseball was kidding..

what happened to the yankees ?? ))))
Larry

Zerbe

I agree that the "look", is important. Peace dollars do not come nicely toned, as a rule. If I were offered a nicely toned Peace dollar I would buy it, because they are Rare. Almost everybody is looking for the "blast white, just as if minted yesterday", Peace dollars. I did that with my set, except for the 1926S in MS67 PCGS, which was one of the first MS67's PCGS made in the early days. It has been POP1 till this day. I only bought this coin after I had it confirmed by several top graders in the country that, technically, it is an MS67. So I guess the general rule for Peace dollars is to buy all blast white if you can. I say buy only NGC or only PCGS because, a lot of people are happier seeing the full set in one type of holder, (aesthetics).
Trust me, you do not want to get into the excruciating, painful, game of CROSSOVER. Avoid that at all cost. Remember, just because a Peace dollar is in an NGC holder, does not mean it is not equal to a PCGS holdered one. AND IT WILL BE MUCH CHEAPER IN PRICE !!

zerbe

FrattLaw

I've been checking prices for the more common dates/mm and I'm finding at least in EBay all the coins are going for basically the same price, doesn't matter PCGS, NGC, ANACS, SEGS or even PCI. Obvious value there in PCGS.

From Zerbe's remarks it appears in the higher grades there is a tremendous increase for PCGS coins. Is this due to overgrading or the PCGS hype?

I don't mind a mix set as long as all the coins are technically graded correctly.

I think the cross-over game could be interesting, once I become very familiar with Peace dollars I think of it as a challenge to find those types of coins, grade them properly and hope for the best.

All in all, I thank everyone for their help and advice. I still have a long way to go. Please feel free to help me along the way with more great comments.

Michael

MW Fattorosi Collection

Zerbe

Frattlaw, I suppose it might be "intersesting and a challenge" to try the crossover game. If you stay in the MS64 & MS65 range you won't
have much to lose if PCGS does not cross an NGC for you. If you are into the higher priced coins it can hurt. I will throw one actual crossover scenario at you, that has recently happened with me.
I bought a gold coin in a PCGS old, old holder at an auction. It was graded PR65 PCGS. There is only one coin higher at PCGS and it is a PR66.
A famous crackout artist was bidding against me, which made me even surer that the coin would six. I ended up paying six money for the coin. When I showed the coin to one of the top three graders in the country, he said the coin was a high grade six with a shot at a seven. The coin goes into PCGS, it comes back the same, PR65.
It is cracked out, sent in; comes back a PR64.
It is cracked out again, sent to NGC; comes back what it should have in the first place, PR67. This is not to say that NGC is easy, REMEMBER, One of the top three graders in the country, ( I can't describe him any further, because everyony will know who it is), told me when he first saw the coin, that it might go PR67. I don't know what is going on in the grading room at PCGS, but I, for one, have zero faith in them grading any of my coins correctly. By the way, the difference in price of the above coin, in PR64 as compared to PR67 is
$30,000. If they just gave me the PR66, ( that it definitely was), I could have used it in my Registry set. So just beware if you ever up the ante and start buying higher priced coins. You can get some pretty severe shocks, when your coins come back from the grading service.

FrattLaw

Zerbe

As I am reading your post, I just realized that before I can play the "crackout game" at your level, I would have to start with the "surgical removal game."

Before I could decide between PCGS vs NGC I would have to determine which kidney I needed less Left vs. Right. Then I would have to get one of the top three surgeons in the country to give an opinion as to the viabilty or longevity I could expect without the use of both kidneys.

Then I could probably get rid of one kidney on EBay for MAYBE enough money to compete at your level.

Just kiddin, though I did enjoy your post. Its interesting to see/hear about a side of numastics that I'll probably never attain.

I'll stick to the 63-64-65 Peace dollar level. It ain't much money, but it involves the same challenges and skills.

Michael

MW Fattorosi Collection (It might not be much, but I'm working on it!)

IrishMike

Zerbe you certainly know your Peace Dollars, but you mentioned a 35D spread of $6325 in NGC versus $35K in PCGS, after reading that I am embarassed to admit since I don't own a single Peace Dollar, I did a search for that coin. Never did find one. Took me awhile to figure out why.

Zerbe

Irishmike,
I was at the ANA in NY, and attended the Bowers and Merena auction. I was so tempted to bid on the 1934D NGC (pop 1) or the 1935S MS67 NGC (pop 1); sold for $8625. There is not a 1935S in MS67 at PCGS. I know if the 1935S were in a PCGS holder, I would have been in a bidding war, since it is a MS67 pop1 and of course it is an S mint. I know I would have bid up to 40K. Again, we have an approximate $30,000 spread for the same coin. Picture a sales clerk in a in an upscale coin shop saying this to you, "Sir, would you like the 1935S MS67, in the clear plastic case for $40,999, or the 1935S, MS67 in the white case for $8,999 ?" Go to Bowers and Merena's web
site and look at the coin in their auction archives, (ANA Rarities sale,
July, 2002, lot #560. It is one of the best Peace dollars I have ever seen. I never though it would have sold for that low of a price. The last time that coin was advertised for sale was 9-17-02 in Coin World, for $29,500. If I knew the coin would sell for less than $10,000 I would have bought it, even knowing the previous owner had tried to cross it, but again, the PCGS graders were having another bad hair day and refused to cross it. After writing this, and
reading it, I sense that I definitely have a bad attitude towards PCGS graders. BUT THEY HAVE EARNED IT. THERE ARE TIMES WHEN THEY ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE ! ZERBE