segs and pci

CLASSICS

about these two grading services, does anyone know their back ground, who are they, when did they start, did they use to be coin dealers? or used car salesmen. or ? thanks

FC57Coins

I know that the current owner of PCI actively deals, along with several of their traders. I've seen them at shows. As to the quality of their grading, I'd put segs ahead of pci. Both however, leave something to be desired in Franklins for example. To me their grading is about a point to a point and a half below PCGS grading.

Frank

prooflike

Coins that can't make it in a PCGS, NGC or ANACS slab end up in the rest. That's all there is to know.

wingedliberty

Here is all you need to know.

Brian Bearsly of Worldwide Ventures owns PCI. Their grading sucks.
Larry Briggs of Larry Briggs Coins owns SEGS. Their grading also sucks.

Stick to PCGS and NGC, don't learn the hardway.


Brian.

braddick

It kind of weird. It used to be, for me, I liked PCI and THEN SEGS. Now, with the change of PCI about a year ago, and the (preceived?) quality boast of SEGS, it has switched.

PCI will still slab my strange, whacky stuff no one else will touch.
I have eight coins into them right now.

Anyone ever see a slabbed VG08 Sacawagea? Well, PCI has...

Dog97

I'd go with SEGS before I would PCI but I don't give either company much credit. I wouldn't be as worried about getting a bad coin in a SEGS holder as I would PCI, only an overgraded coin. PCI & ACG are bout the same.

JD

I crossed over 5 morgans from the old ANACS photo/flip technical holders in SEGS about three years ago, the only time I ever used them and the only time I ever sent in coins for slabbing to any service. A technical MS65/65 came back as MS64, a technial MS63/63 came back as a MS63, a technical MS61/63 came back MS63, and two technical MS63/64's came back MS63. I wasn't happy about the 65 to a 64 but the others crossed over ok. Some folks have told me ANACS graded high back in the 80's. I'm happy with SEGS but the market prefers PCGS & NGC so that's what I look at now. Although, I dislike NGC's slab design.

lordmarcovan

I have a lot of nice things to say about SEGS, their nice holders being one. If they hadn't gotten such an abysmal reputation for overgrading and didn't have so many misspelled labels, they'd be terrific.

PCI is cheap and sometimes their grading is OK. I have found it can be inconsistent and brutal, though. After three successive bloody noses I got from submissions, I dropped them, though if I saw a coin I liked that was already in a PCI holder, it wouldn't stop me from buying it. I have had PCI coins upgrade upon crossover to NGC, believe it or not, but I have also had minor problem coins like cleaned ones get into PCI holders with no notation of the problem.

I agree completely with Dog97 on what he said, though I would not put even PCI in the same dungeon with ACG: very few companies are deserving of that punishment.

As to the history and formation of the two companies, you might check their websites. I believe Larry Briggs, the Seated specialist, and Bill Fivaz, variety specialist and co-author of The Cherrypicker's Guide, had something to do with the formation of SEGS in the mid-to-late 1990's.

Viper

Last year myself and a few other board members submitted coins to PCI that had gone from PCGS to ACG. Trust me they are no better than ACG and PCI upgraded a few for Spooly from the ACG grade. I did try to slip a few cleaned coins in and they caught them.

I also tried an experiment with unc franklins and split the best coins between PCI and PCGS. Most from PCGS came back MS-64 FBL(a few MS-63 FBL) while PCI used bell curve grading and had them from 63 to 66 FBL.

Very inconsistent and no resale value.

DesertLizard

Don't take anyone's word for it!!!

Next major auction in your area go to look / preview the various auction lots. Spend 3-4 hours looking at slab after slab. After about an hour you will see the difference and will never ever buy a non NGC or PCGS slab unless you are an expert and can get a real deal.

Buyiung these off brand slab is almost a guarantee of an overgraded or cleaned or even fake coin.

dorkkarl

i'd say buy the coin for what it grades to you, & don't worry about the holder regardless of the plastic company.

but i think the question was about their background, right? seems like most of the responses were slams on the co's instead.

K S

4thStooge

SEGS -run by Larry Briggs - good guy - expert on seated coins

PCI - runs by Brian Beardsley - ex-con and the scuttlebutt is he's having cash flow problems.

barney

I've purchased only one non-PCGS/NGC coin: a 1925-S Cali Commem in PCI 64. It was a nice piece (bought it for the color, what a surprise!), but the slab hurt its value. I didn't lose much on the coin and, as some of you know, I traded it toward the infamous 1886 monster dollar.

Bottom line: unless you're a real expert (and I'm not) stick with the biggies.

Best wishes,
Barney

coppercoins

Not only is PCI's grading usually on the bad side (just very inconsistent), they also wouldn't know a die variety from a hole in their heads. Very often have I seen PCI slabs containing "double dies" (note the incorrect term anyway) that were nothing more than machine damage doubling, and unsuspecting dealers were selling this worthless crap for big money. "If the slab says it, then it has to be true," is never the case for PCI. Usually if a PCI slab mentions it, then it's not true. I don't know where those people got their die variety attributor's certification, but it was probably in the same cereal box where they found their coin grading certification.

By the way, my first post on this site, and I hope to make many more in the future. Nice forum!

- C. D. D.
owner, developer
www.coppercoins.com

flaminio

Here's one datapoint on a PCI slabbed coin crossed to ICG:

PCI to ICG Crossover

What can I say, I rolled the dice and came up snake-eyes. I doubt I'll ever buy a PCI-slabbed coin again.

-Bob

Conder101

Here is some background on the companies. The PCI info is not quite complete, I couldn't get the latest file version opened.


PCI (Photo-Certified Coin Institute) Based In Chattanooga TN, this slabbing service was dealer owned by Chattanooga Coin Co. In Sept 2001 PCI was been sold to Leslie Shade. In March 2002 PCI was sold again, this time to Brian Beardsley, a dealer from Orlando FL. While it actually seemed to have a reputation for consistent grading, it was never really been taken seriously by a majority of the numismatic community. Possibly because it also had a reputation for slightly overgrading as well. It has probably survived for two reasons. First it was one of, if not the first, company to slab "problem" coins. At that time the big three companies would not slab "problem" coins. ANACS would at least authenticate the coin and send it home with either a certificate or at least a written opinion, PCGS and NGC would not even look at them and just shipped them back. Keeping all the slabbing fees of course. Second, PCI slabbing was inexpensive. At the time the big three were charging $23 to $25 to slab a coin. In quantity, or by jumping through a few hoops, or by not caring if it took them till the next millennium to get it back to you, you might be able to get the cost down to $15. PCI charged $8 and slabbed everything that was genuine. Unfortunately since the latest sale the quality of the grading has apparently plummeted. Concensus in the marketplace seems to be that PCI is now ranking lower than ACG, a drop of from three to five places depending on who you are talking to. When HALLMARK went out of business PCI bought up their inventory and started using their slab style. There are fourteen types of PCI slabs.


SEGS (Sovereign Entities Grading Service) Yet another service begun by some of the "most respected names in numismatics". Although they started back in 1998, they seem to have had some startup problems. SEGS slabs didn't start showing up on the market until early 1999 and the number seen stayed fairly low until late in the year. While there have been some complaints of overgrading, SEGS remains something of an enigma on the market. In order to try and prevent charges of favoritism, all coins submitted to SEGS are actually submitted to a third party who takes the coins out of the submission holders and places them in serial numbered flips before they are sent to the graders so that theoretically no one knows who submitted the coins. One feature of SEGS slabs is that the label and identification is visible on the top edge of the slab. This allows you to identify what is in each slab without having to pull it out of the box and look at it. A feature first used seven years earlier by Compugrade. In late 2001 SEGS relocated in Chattanooga TN. Five types of slab. SEGS claims four different colors of labels are used light brown for copper coins, blue for other base metal coins, lavander for silver coins and gold for gold coins. So far I have only been able to discern two colors. But this is probably due to a failing on the part of my vision. The fifth variety is a special one used for varieties.

KoinKollector

<<The fifth variety is a special one used for varieties.>>

Conder,
I have several rarer varities in SEGS slabs. Could you tell me what makes the slab special?