Who is DSL Sports (Discount Sportscards)?
chrisrenaud
Posts: 176
This dealer seems to have an enormous amount of volume of 70's cards in PSA 9-10 condition, and I was wondering if anyone knew who this dealer is. As well, there have been a few times that I think that this dealer gets generous treatment from PSA. Am I imagining this, is it just chance, or is this something that others have perceived as well.
Thanks in advance for everyone's opinion.
Chris
Thanks in advance for everyone's opinion.
Chris
Collector of baseball PSA sets from the 1970's & hockey rookie cards; big New York Rangers fan (particularly now that they are sleeping with the enemy with Holik and Kaspiritus). Also starting to collect 53 Bowman Color as I think they are the most beautiful cards I have seen.
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This same topic of this very same dealer has come up seveal times on the other Forum earlier this year. I would be curious to know why you feel that this dealer gets generous treatment. Is it because he sells so many 9's or 10's or have you received cards that you felt were overgraded?
I've bought from him in the past myself. I've bought some 1968 PSA 10's that were nice, but did not blow me away.
The thing that's bothered a lot of people is that this dealer is only a stone's throw from PSA.
Can you imagine how much $$$ they are losing.
But what i don't get is how they are getting all the Jason Giambi Alaska Goldpanners PSA 10's. I had one graded by PSA several months ago and i was lucky enough to get a 10. Thought i would sell it and make some decent money off of it ($80-$100). Nope. They have been listing 4 or 5 of these a week! For several months now. Finally sold mine for $35. Little bit dissapointed.
But i do have to admit, they got pretty stuff.
As someone who was in the past one of the largest submitters to PSA, I'm sure he gets the same type of turnaround and discounting on grading costs, as well as he has to go through MANY cards to get the 10s he does get. I've bought MANY lots of raw cards that came directly from sets, and just weren't quite good enough to be graded by PSA.
Re: The Goldpanners, if you contact me, I can offer you the same deal I sold them on Giambis - when you get a large qty of a card raw, you're going to get lots of 10s...
The only reason that I madethe comment re the grades that he receives from PSA is that I have probably bought 60 or 70 cards from him, and submitted a few thousand cards to PSA myself, and I am certain that they apply different centering standards to him and to I (particularly on 75 Topps Minis which I avidly collect and where I have bought some 9's that were really borderline 8's - fair enough, and it is not a huge distinction; but it is not a gut feeling, I really think there is a difference on the centering issue). I guess if I was really upset I would not bid on his auctions, but I think too many of his 9's are bordering 8's and the 10's on 9's. His cards help you go up the set registry, but not in a way that always make you feel that you have a great card for the grade.
I no longer bid on DSL material. I have never been too pleased with my purchases from them. A bunch of NM+ cards in 9 holders looks good on paper, but not if you love the cards. DSL-- Good people, soft grades. And, yes, it would appear a different set of standards.
Now is the time where everybody replies that we're sour grapes and don't know what we're talking about. I hope those same folks enjoy their overgraded 70's collections.
As interesting as the volume is, I've not seen any PSA submissions on ebay for this card from dslsports.
I can just hear Zardoz now.............................
BOTR
They have indicated to me in the past that they consign cards -- though I have not been able to verify this independently. I do know that they break a huge amount of unopened material -- and they submit in such large quantities that they get favorable pricing. Despite PSA's claims that graders do not know who the submitter is -- their quantities are often large enough to make it all but a sure thing that a grader know who the submitter is. Not many people submit as many 1968 World Series game cards as he has, for example.
As for the Tiger Woods GSV card -- it is clear to me that Beckett sometimes grades trimmed or altered cards -- and there often can be reasons why a dealer or seller will submit to one grading company and not another. If those BGS 9.5 cards would be sold with a 100% guarantee that PSA would grade them (e.g., grade them at all....), then I think that they would receive much more for the cards.
They have been selling huge quantities of high grade cards on Ebay for a long-time now. They are Solomon were among the first to do this on a large scale with commons and/or low-dollar star cards (1983 Pete Rose cards, for example).
Finally -- I have purchased hundreds, if not thousands, of raw Mike Schmidt cards from Discount Sports from the many cases that they broke -- and from the cards that were not worthy of submission.
MS
DSL single-handedly ruined the 1980 Football BVG Population Report -
1980 BVG FB POP Report - Look at Payton, Fouts & Bradshaw, all DSLs doing
Not that I can confirm or deny that BVG grades "bad" card - but give me a break, how many 9.5? Does anyone know how many cases you would have to rip of that year to get one 9.5? And why didn't he send that order to PSA? hummmmm. . .
After that POP report jumped due to DSL, I spoke directly with the grader at Beckett, and he confirmed it was a large order from DSL and that they said they did not want anything below a 9, which is why you never see any 8s from them.
I've got lots of bones with DSL, because they don't allow the 8s in slabs, it increases the percent of 9s in the sets, making those 9s less valuable. They charge too much for shipping, no PAYPAL.
Also wanted to get a look at some of those high graded vintage cards at the National, and all he brought was modern junk. Stacks of cards priced at $10 each.
Because of these reasons and more, I won't deal or buy with them anymore. That makes two of us on this thread alone.
Sorry people, had to write. . .
My personal submissions have always come back about as expected with VERY few surprises. However, from personal experience there are some dealers on whose stuff I just can't bid for fear of getting a NM (or worse) card in a PSA8 (or BGS8) holder. There are other dealers where I feel like I have to e-mail them to have them recheck the cards I'm interested in before I will bid. In each case, I'm confident the dealers themselves aren't influencing the process. But at the same time, I feel the process needs to be looked at.
Mike
As to the claim his cards are overgraded or 9's in 10 holders ... I have bought several cards from DSL and was satisfied in the quality of the cards/acccuracy of the grades......
Yes his shipping costs are but as has been pointed out in numerous threads on this forum here factor that into your bids... So he does not take Paypal...Many sellers do not... Yes it is a major convenience but it is also a cost to the seller a cost DSL must figure it is not worth it ... Has anyone Emailed DSL and told him they do not bid on his auctions because they do not take paypal? That might spur DSL into allowing PAYpal.... Just My 02 cents
Perhaps he should and other dealers should allow a return of unsatisfactory cards, but when he does not deal with paypal the mechanics of sending a check and then waiting for a check back are very cumbersome.
Does anyone know if DSL Sportscards allows returns?
I think I will email him on this.
Again, thanks for everyone's thoughts.
Chris
It's always tough to make judgments from scans alone, but his scans are clear and he was was forthright upon questioning. I am ultimately the guy who will decide what to bid or buy, collect or invest. I was pleased with my two contacts with DSL for very different reasons.
BTW, those discolored nines went for very strong prices.
If I'm buying it's PRICELESS. If I'm selling, it's WORTHLESS.
Looking for 1984 Donruss -
#238 Keith Hernandez PSA 10
-----------------and
#637 Omar Moreno PSA 9 or 10.
*****
for now. I'll jump back in soon.
DSL was a big supplier of these cards. I also will NEVER buy from them again. Many reasons.
1) Some of their nines looked weak that I bought.
2) I've scratched my head trying to figure out how they were almost the only dealer with Psa 10's
of these cards. I know they had a ton of these but how come they are the only one's pulling 10's.
I haven't seen any of the 10's. Mainly because gemmint is winning most. I wonder how good
all these 10's are?!
3) They don't take paypal.
4) All the threads I've read in the past have furthered my suspicions.
Mr KKBB ... make that three people.
aconte
However, when a dealer does this with flagrant disregard for the hobby in general, I also become annoyed.
Actually I replied to this thread because of the quality of what was being said here, and it gave my a chance to vent about the 1980 BVG POP report again. I like a lot of the ideas that came out of this thread, and I have also offered my opinion on DSL.
Each seller learns in their own way. The first BVG 9.5 Payton that sold went for close to $800. I saw DSL sell a recent one for around $45. While I'm sure a PSA 10 1980 Payton would still go in that $500-$800 range. I think DSL learned something because of what he did with BVG.
Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. KKBB
Yes indeed I believe they get the benifit of the doubt,,Blown up the pop for sure. Just of one of my instances I purchased a 90 score sosa in a 10. Literally an 8 I have 20 of the same card I submitted in 8 holders. 4 razor corners clean yet chipped noticeably on the side....Hmmm now thats a tough card to watch the pop jump from 13 to vor 40 or more thats off the top of my head in 4 months. Somethings fishy..
Frazier,
I to have seen nasty, ugly, cards that shouldn't even be submitted flood from large dealers and heavy submitters. Not to mention the 81 10's in big names that just seem to pop. Now I can see if the crack enough card they'll find them yet I crack more than anyone imagines look at my results...My 9's will rate with any 10 turned and I'll buy them to show it....My opinion the 70's collectors are being screwed by heavy submissions...Filled the hobby with junk...
Matt
<< <i>Mainly because gemmint is winning most. I wonder how good >>
<< <i>all these 10's are?! >>
I buy a lot of vintage from them, mostly 9's and 10's for the '64 Topps Giants set. We can debate all day about the 9's, but when I buy a 10 from them, it is a 10. I examine the cards thoroughly under 10X magnification with light, and I realize very well that examining a card once it's in the slab is not the most accurate measure by any means. Having said that I have found their 10's to be flawless and have never been disappointed. I have also bought '64 Topps Giants 10's from other dealers, and DSL's 10's are at least as good. So I conclude that at least with the vintage cards that I buy from them, they are not receiving preferential treatment.
BTW Aconte - I applied the "Aconte Standards of Excellence" before making the above statement
aconte
It's not that hard to get them cut down right if you have the proper connections, and that'll generate your large qty of 9s and 9.5s - submitted to BGS/BVG.
There's a reason for everything...
I can't say that I won't buy from DSL. I can say that I can no longer buy with confidence from DSL. I feel this is only partially his doing. On the one hand, he's not to blame for cards ending up in "optimistic holders". He didn't grade them after all. But on the other hand, had the card been accurately described in his eBay listing it would have affected my decision to bid.
Mike
Either PSA rejected them, or they were wise enough to send them to BVG and not try PSA.
I definately think sheets was it here - cut card cases are possible, but you don't get THAT type of quality from cut card cases. I've probably owned 500 cut card cases from 78-85 in the last few years...you get a LOT of 80/20 cards from many cut card cases, and corners aren't always perfect either...some cards I've pulled are 140/-40!
It makes us consumers ever-more vigilant in buying the card and not the holder, which is not always possible when buying off the internet with only a scan to visualize.
I also have no problem with skewed pop report statistics, as they tend to "settle" when enough cards are submitted and graded. It will take a few years and tens of thousands of submissions to show true numbers.
I don't know the topps production numbers, but what should scare some 70's, but especially most 80's and 90's collectors, is that there are presumably hundreds of thousands of each card out there, unlike the 60's and earlier. And if you look at total cards submitted for those years (50,000 + for 1956 Topps baseball alone) in which there were considerably smaller print runs, and the fact that by the 70's, kids were more aware of their value (what kid put those cards in their bikes' spokes), the law of supply and demand would scare the heck out of me, especially on premium costs of current low pop high-grade (9's and 10's) stuff.
To me, a 9 is a 9 is a 9 . . . (and any other grade too).
That's what the pop report reflects, and so does the SMR. If one 9 looks a little more off center than another - I put my trust into PSA that the one that looks a little more off center has 9+ corners, or better edges, or better color, and is still within 9 standards overall.
Which brings up one more point I'd like to mention. A lot of times when I scan a card, it comes out in the picture as looking off center, but it really isn't. I attribute this to the way the scanner bay door doesn't closer all the way (it's reflective properties), the position the card is in - in the holder, and that most slabs have a 3-D effect and appear to be tilted just a bit.
I've been tending to give most scans the benefit of the doubt. And have been happy with almost all of my PSA graded cards.
The problem with the "a 9 is a 9 is a 9 (substitute any grade for 9)" is that the parameters within any particular grade are fairly substantial. Just with centering alone, there are some years with very thin borders, and even a card that is within borderline limits of that grade can look oc compared to the same card that is 50/50.
As you say, the grader has discretion in compensating some in one phase, such as centering, for that of another, say corner wear. So in this respect, not all 9's or any other grade are created equal.
In any case, it is up to the collector/consumer to dictate their own preference, but due to what I think is too wide a variance within a particual grade, there will always be high-end and low-end cards in each grade.
We have discussed going to half grades on other threads, and there has not been much support for this change.