Someone is spending $10,000 on a coin that is no better than a PR69, but it was blessed by the Political Coin Grading Service during an era when they were competeing with ICG. INSANITY!
Not without PCGS's help. Only they can run the serial number through to see when it was assigned. But still no guarantee because of crackouts and such.
Is this anything like the 'irrational exuberance' that foretold the recent stock market collapse?
I can see some poor 'investor' now trying to convince his crying wife that it was necessary to max out the credit cards for this 'one of a kind' coin which is sure to double in value in the near future
My pr69dcam looks the same, I made mine for a total of $128, INCLUDING the NGC slabbing fee. I would rather spend the remaining $9872 on other coins. Who's with me?
I'm with you wingedliberty! I really hate to see those high prices because it makes me want to sell my 70s then my set won't be complete anynmore. I think the key word is Pop 1 though.
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
I wonder if the people who pay this kind of stupid money for 70DCAMs ever return the coins to the seller when they get them and find out they aren't any better than a 69DCAM? Or, do they just enter them in their registry set and not care?
[quote]My pr69dcam looks the same, I made mine for a total of $128, INCLUDING the NGC slabbing fee. I would rather spend the remaining $9872 on other coins. Who's with me?[/quote]
now THAT was a profound post.
I'm with you Winged.
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
<< <i>Do you think the 69-S Kennedy PR70DC (pop One) is worth the PCGS value of $5,000? >>
BSqr,
No, I don't. I haven't seen it, but my guess is that it looks no better than my 69DCAM example (a very primo coin), and also no better than some of Greg's 69DCAMs for the same year.
However, I'd bet that the last time it changed hands, it went for very close to the CU price or maybe even more. It was very recently purchased for the #1 proof Kennedy set, just in time for the 2002 awards.
I knew Russ wasn't too far away. I'll add my two cents: If I owned the '69 I would want to think it's worth $5k, but who would buy it (other than the no. 1 or 2 set).
Regarding the commemorative on teletrade THE BP IS GONNA RUN YOU 2 GRAND!!!!! (Sorry for shouting) Ouch.
Joe
The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition.
<<Or, do they just enter them in their registry set and not care?>> They're just buying the number on the slab-they don't care about the coin-it's the number that matters.
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
Is it possible that someone who wanted, say, $8K-10K for the coin decided to put a stratospheric reserve on the coin, had someone else bid it up to $13K knowing it wouldn't meet reserve, then use that bid as leverage to sell it for the desired $8-10K?
Because I'm having trouble buying the notion that a $13K bid wouldn't meet the reserve (for someone who had actually wanted to sell the coin).
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>then use that bid as leverage to sell it for the desired $8-10K? >>
I think Kranky is on to something. I just have a hard time believing that these modern commems dont' have a number of PR70 DCAM pieces in the hands of collectors waiting to be slabbed.
Russ, is the PR70 DCAM rare because it doesn't exist or because it isn't awarded the grade?
<< <i>Russ, is the PR70 DCAM rare because it doesn't exist or because it isn't awarded the grade? >>
Both. The PR70DCAMs I've seen (ones that say that on the holder) were NOT 70's. I'm sure there are some out there that are, but not nearly as many as the pop report would indicate. Those were from the era when PCGS actually granted the grade.
Now, they simply no longer give it in proofs. In my series, for the years 1996-1998, 118 were granted the grade. From 1999-2001, there was a grand total of ONE. As I asked RM in the Q&A forum (which he ignored and refused to answer), what changed?
<< <i>From 1999-2001, there was a grand total of ONE. As I asked RM in the Q&A forum (which he ignored and refused to answer), what changed? >>
It does seem a little strange. I also noted RM's pass on that part of your question. I actually had not looked as closely as you have on the '99-'01 pop reports and find the change remarkable.
Now, they simply no longer give it in proofs. In my series, for the years 1996-1998, 118 were granted the grade. From 1999-2001, there was a grand total of ONE. As I asked RM in the Q&A forum (which he ignored and refused to answer), what changed?
I asked a very similar question, but it was ignored also. However, I made my question more pointed.
I knew my question wouldn't get approved, so I saved it to post in the forums.
Subject: Why Did PCGS Change Their Grading Standard For PR70 Coins?
Whether or not PCGS wishes to admit it, the grading standard for PR70s has clearly changed. Why did PCGS basically stop giving out the PR70 grade?
There are thousands of PR70 coins out there in PCGS slabs. Yet practically all those were graded a few years ago. With the extremely rare exception, new PR70s aren't being graded.
The timing of this policy change seems to coincide with the marketplace discounting all ICG coins. We all know ICG is the King of PR70s.
Why the change in grading standards? PR70 used to be hard to obtain, then PCGS opened the floodgates, then those floodgates were shut again.
Did PCGS feel the need to compete with ICG and now that ICG is no longer a credible service PCGS can go back to grading stricter? Did the dealers in the market place put pressure on PCGS to reduce the supply of PR70s in order to keep the prices high?
What is the true reason for the lack of new PR70s coming out of PCGS?
We all know why he refused to answer either of us. If he answered honestly, PCGS would be buried in 70s under their grade guarantee program. Better the masses be fat and happy, than know the truth and rise up.
BSqr
Posts: 543
Comments
Obscurum per obscurius
I figured as much.
Of course you can't tell the cert number anyway on teletrade.
Other adjectives come to mind.
peacockcoins
I can see some poor 'investor' now trying to convince his crying wife that it was necessary to max out the credit cards for this 'one of a kind' coin which is sure to double in value in the near future
Shiroh, stop bashing modern coins.
Sorry, it's in my blood. I guess I'm finally affecting braddick.
He wrote, Pure lunacy. Pure and simple.
Obscurum per obscurius
I would rather spend the remaining $9872 on other coins. Who's with me?
Brian
<< <i>Shiroh, stop bashing modern coins. Sorry, it's in my blood. I guess I'm finally affecting braddick. He wrote, Pure lunacy. Pure and simple. >>
Well, you Shiroh AND the $13,000+ pricetag on that coin..
peacockcoins
I really hate to see those high prices because it makes me want to sell my 70s then my set won't be complete anynmore. I think the key word is Pop 1 though.
Russ, NCNE
Do you think the 69-S Kennedy PR70DC (pop One) is worth the PCGS value of $5,000?
I would rather spend the remaining $9872 on other coins. Who's with me?[/quote]
now THAT was a profound post.
I'm with you Winged.
<< <i>Do you think the 69-S Kennedy PR70DC (pop One) is worth the PCGS value of $5,000? >>
BSqr,
No, I don't. I haven't seen it, but my guess is that it looks no better than my 69DCAM example (a very primo coin), and also no better than some of Greg's 69DCAMs for the same year.
However, I'd bet that the last time it changed hands, it went for very close to the CU price or maybe even more. It was very recently purchased for the #1 proof Kennedy set, just in time for the 2002 awards.
Russ, NCNE
Regarding the commemorative on teletrade THE BP IS GONNA RUN YOU 2 GRAND!!!!! (Sorry for shouting)
Ouch.
Joe
<< <i>My pr69dcam looks the same, I made mine for a total of $128, INCLUDING the NGC slabbing fee >>
*raises a "mr spock" eyebrow at Brian*
Fascinating! These coins are drop-dead gorgeous!!!!!!
It looks almost like the devices are floating in black space.
Well, this kind of thing is out of my range...
$13,000 wasn't enough for that $5 oly.... that's absurd
and the last I saw the botanical silver $1 it was over $2000
that really blows my mind, although the sellers could have just been feeling out the market before setting a price
Because I'm having trouble buying the notion that a $13K bid wouldn't meet the reserve (for someone who had actually wanted to sell the coin).
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>then use that bid as leverage to sell it for the desired $8-10K? >>
I think Kranky is on to something. I just have a hard time believing that these modern commems dont' have a number of PR70 DCAM pieces in the hands of collectors waiting to be slabbed.
Russ, is the PR70 DCAM rare because it doesn't exist or because it isn't awarded the grade?
<< <i>Russ, is the PR70 DCAM rare because it doesn't exist or because it isn't awarded the grade? >>
Both. The PR70DCAMs I've seen (ones that say that on the holder) were NOT 70's. I'm sure there are some out there that are, but not nearly as many as the pop report would indicate. Those were from the era when PCGS actually granted the grade.
Now, they simply no longer give it in proofs. In my series, for the years 1996-1998, 118 were granted the grade. From 1999-2001, there was a grand total of ONE. As I asked RM in the Q&A forum (which he ignored and refused to answer), what changed?
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>From 1999-2001, there was a grand total of ONE. As I asked RM in the Q&A forum (which he ignored and refused to answer), what changed? >>
It does seem a little strange. I also noted RM's pass on that part of your question. I actually had not looked as closely as you have on the '99-'01 pop reports and find the change remarkable.
I'd love to see PCGS open the floodgates again and have this greedy SOB owner watch his over-hyped coin be valued at $200 again.
I asked a very similar question, but it was ignored also. However, I made my question more pointed.
I knew my question wouldn't get approved, so I saved it to post in the forums.
Subject: Why Did PCGS Change Their Grading Standard For PR70 Coins?
Whether or not PCGS wishes to admit it, the grading standard for PR70s has clearly changed. Why did PCGS basically stop giving out the PR70 grade?
There are thousands of PR70 coins out there in PCGS slabs. Yet practically all those were graded a few years ago. With the extremely rare exception, new PR70s aren't being graded.
The timing of this policy change seems to coincide with the marketplace discounting all ICG coins. We all know ICG is the King of PR70s.
Why the change in grading standards? PR70 used to be hard to obtain, then PCGS opened the floodgates, then those floodgates were shut again.
Did PCGS feel the need to compete with ICG and now that ICG is no longer a credible service PCGS can go back to grading stricter? Did the dealers in the market place put pressure on PCGS to reduce the supply of PR70s in order to keep the prices high?
What is the true reason for the lack of new PR70s coming out of PCGS?
We all know why he refused to answer either of us. If he answered honestly, PCGS would be buried in 70s under their grade guarantee program. Better the masses be fat and happy, than know the truth and rise up.
Russ, NCNE