Impressions & Images from the "Showdown"
shylock
Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
Wow, what a trip. A few impressions I jotted down during my long plane ride home (transcribed from a dozen post-its and 2 vomit bags).
Special thanks to the 3 owners of these beautiful collections whose quality was only rivaled by the the 3 ladies of PCGS (BJ Searls, Carol Bennett, Gayle Kean) who made viewing them a pleasure. BJ deserves a BIG feather in her cap for pulling this off.
For a comparison of the sets I'll defer to Rick Snow's post in Spooly's thread. Anyone who knows anything about this series knows the difficulty of finding quality coins and had to be overwhelmed by these 3 sets sitting side by side. The connoisseurs all agreed the Blay collection was extra special for its painstaking consistency you'd have to see to believe. All 3 collections were amazing, and the quantity of finest knowns in one location became staggering on Thursday when Ira Davidoff appeared with his complete set in hand. Tim (Lakesammman) and I looked over his set on top of the case that held the other 3 -- unreal! Walking onto the bourse floor in search of 1 or 2 nice coins was difficult after this endless stream of superb gems.
The best part was the people, many of whom I was finally able to attach a face to an email address or forum nic. They turned a great show into a real vacation, making me comfortable from the get go. Very impressive. Stewart Blay is all you'd expect him to be as far as copper expertise and great stories, but is simply a nice guy as well.
Thanks to all 3 collectors, PCGS and the Long Beach Collectibles Expo I was able to take a couple images of the display itself.
Jim Halperin (Heritage) & Tim (Lakesammman) at the PCGS table.
Carol "Greta Garbo" Bennett waving off the paparazzo and BJ "Annie Oakley" Searls attending the PCGS booth.
Courtesy of the Long Beach Coins, Stamps and Collectibles Expo
BJ and me
I'd like to have imaged every coin but it would have taken 2 days. I managed to image many which I'll add to this post soon. But I have to conclude with Stewart's 1877 PCGS MS66RD "Golden Princess" which is, well.......
Courtesy of the Long Beach Coins, Stamps and Collectibles Expo
Special thanks to the 3 owners of these beautiful collections whose quality was only rivaled by the the 3 ladies of PCGS (BJ Searls, Carol Bennett, Gayle Kean) who made viewing them a pleasure. BJ deserves a BIG feather in her cap for pulling this off.
For a comparison of the sets I'll defer to Rick Snow's post in Spooly's thread. Anyone who knows anything about this series knows the difficulty of finding quality coins and had to be overwhelmed by these 3 sets sitting side by side. The connoisseurs all agreed the Blay collection was extra special for its painstaking consistency you'd have to see to believe. All 3 collections were amazing, and the quantity of finest knowns in one location became staggering on Thursday when Ira Davidoff appeared with his complete set in hand. Tim (Lakesammman) and I looked over his set on top of the case that held the other 3 -- unreal! Walking onto the bourse floor in search of 1 or 2 nice coins was difficult after this endless stream of superb gems.
The best part was the people, many of whom I was finally able to attach a face to an email address or forum nic. They turned a great show into a real vacation, making me comfortable from the get go. Very impressive. Stewart Blay is all you'd expect him to be as far as copper expertise and great stories, but is simply a nice guy as well.
Thanks to all 3 collectors, PCGS and the Long Beach Collectibles Expo I was able to take a couple images of the display itself.
Jim Halperin (Heritage) & Tim (Lakesammman) at the PCGS table.
Carol "Greta Garbo" Bennett waving off the paparazzo and BJ "Annie Oakley" Searls attending the PCGS booth.
Courtesy of the Long Beach Coins, Stamps and Collectibles Expo
BJ and me
I'd like to have imaged every coin but it would have taken 2 days. I managed to image many which I'll add to this post soon. But I have to conclude with Stewart's 1877 PCGS MS66RD "Golden Princess" which is, well.......
Courtesy of the Long Beach Coins, Stamps and Collectibles Expo
Paul <> altered surfaces <> CoinGallery.org
0
Comments
I must say if that is an example of what you saw,I'm jealous
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
Edited to add: Thanks for the great picture Paul, what a terrific coin. Hope to see you in Orlando.
Here's another from the Blay set, a difficult coin to image due to its tone. This 1862 MS67 is one of the most appealing copper-nickels you'll ever find with subtle peripheral toning I could just barely capture. You really have to see this one in person:
His 1900 MS67RD (!):
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
Your pics are great.I'm quite sure I'd have drooled all over the case.I'll bet they had to clean the glass after every person.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
Great job on the pics - the toning on the 1862 is spectacular! The 1877 is the only one I've ever lusted after...what a monster. Thanks again for the photo tips while there - I have the lights on order.
Is that really me in the Hawaiin shirt.....gotta start eating salads again!
There are two ways to look at it. Technically it falls short in strike. But compared to other 1877s they've graded on a curve due to common strike weakness, why not? This PCGS MS66RD has the same gorgeous color but is clearly weaker struck. The only other image I have, c/o Rick Snow, is an older photograph of the 66RD Epstein coin.
Here are two extremely tough dates from the Ally collection that won "best in show". Both are 66RDs:
An equally tough date in 66RD from the Richard collection that was supreme:
Courtesy of the Long Beach Coins, Stamps and Collectibles Expo
Paul, Thanks for the images.
Great photography as well. Thanks for posting the pictures.
Jim
One last coin for tonight from the Blay set that blew every diehard collector away. The 1886 T2 gets a lot of attention, but try finding a T1 like this 66RD:
It was a pleasure to meet you !! I just go home this morning via the red eye.My only glitch occurred at the LAX airport when a couple of security inspectors who failed to attend the showdown wanted to see my coins.
The shots look great and are certainly better than I can ever compose.I'm sure there are more to be posted.
I really enjoyed sharing my coins with the other collectors.I am also amazed how well all the collectors got along together.I was also enamoured how much fun Ira Davidoff was having during his own showdown with his set vs. mine and the others
We finally got Rick Snow on the message boards
Tim - For the time being,I am married to my 1877.The 1877 coming up in January is suppose to be a real nice ms66 red.When I see you again I can tell you its history.It was great to see you again.
Merz - I got to meet Doug Wright on Saturday
Stewart
For some life lasts a short while, but the memories it holds last forever.
-Laura Swenson
In memory of BL, SM, and KG. 16 and forever young, rest in peace.
I already regret not taking even more pics, but perhaps that could be done at some future date in a more conducive environment. I think we should crack them all out of their damn plastic and get some really nice images
Was fortunate enough to meet Doug and Jom during my last hour there, both great guys. Jom & I searched the floor for Elcontador (Jeff) but it was like finding a needle in a haystack at that point. He introduced me to Toningintheblood and Strat along the way.
A few more keys from the Blay set (the 1868 & 72 are 65s, the 1875 is 66):
And his MS67RD 1878 (!):
All images courtesy of the Long Beach Coins, Stamps and Collectibles Expo
Courtesy of the Long Beach Coins, Stamps and Collectibles Expo
Stewart knew I'd recently bought an 1857 FE with major obverse strike doubling, and brought his PCGS certified DDO of this date for comparison. Mine has the same doubling of the denticles on the upper rim, date and eagle, but lacks the doubling of the eye & beak that his clearly shows:
1857 DDO MS64
that 77 is breathtaking.
That FE DDO you have linked looks exactly like one I have in EF40 PCGS. Mine too has a broken wing tip.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
There are quite a few images I'm not happy with because they're not close to being good representations of the coins, so I'm leaving them out. At home there are some coppers I take 20+ images of, with different lighting and camera settings, just to get one half decent shot. All things considered I'm happy with the number of acceptible images. The 1877 Blay coin was the only one I played it safe with and took many images of.
An example of one of the "mistake" images: Stewart's 1869/69 65RD had a piece hay from the Showdown props sneak onto the slab (#%$#@).
Here are 2 consecutive dates that are nearly impossible to find without major problems, let alone attractive. Both MS66RDs from the Blay set:
All images courtesy of the Long Beach Coins, Stamps and Collectibles Expo
For those of you who don't know Paul, he has a photographic memory for coins. At the showdown, he was telling me the attributes of the REVERSE of the coins, even before having them removed to view for the first time!
Here's a bonus point question - who's the dealer to the left of Halperin in the first photo??
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Courtesy of the Long Beach Coins, Stamps and Collectibles Expo
Thanks to Richard, The Ally Collection, Stewart Blay and BJ and the PCGS gang for making this possible! I heard there was a 4'th set there, but I didn't get to see that.
I am not a copper guy. I'm not a MS guy either. But I too was totally blown away by these collections. To look at the numbers these sets are within 1 point of each other. But to see them in person makes points seem silly. To argue which set is better you have to get into comparing each coin in each set. Not just by the numbers but in person.
I guess IHC collectors look at specific dates knowing how hard they are. Due to ignorance I don't. I'm just looking at three cases of red Indian cents. All the coins were great. If some expert could actually pick the worst coin of all three collections I would really love to own a coin like that!
But even after seeing so many gem Indians in a row there were a few that stood out. These stood out to me because, at a distance, they looked different. They were the ones in each collection that had a different color.
Thank You very much. Enjoyable and Your Enthusiasium is Contagious. We as Forumn members are Darn Lucky to have a Member like yourself around these Boards.
Thanks Again.
Ken
As per a Snow Longacre's Ledger article from 1999: From 1870 through 1872 both reverse styles exist, with the shallow N a rarer 'type' coin for 71 & 72. Snow has just recently listed them separately on his Pink Sheet. All of the 1873s are bold N except on some varieties (some of the cl3 S-2s & Doubled Liberty die 2), and all coins from 1874 thru 1876 are bold N. Obviously, all the 1877s have the shallow N, the last year it is known.
There's an interesting article in the most recent Ledger about an 1876 shallow N that appeared to show up on Ebay. If you click my Fly-In Club link you can read it in the Ledger Archives.
Paul, I know about the shallow N on the 1877, and it looks like the one on the 69. Maybe Rick would just chuckle at me rather than slap me around.
Paul,
Perhaps you could put up a picture of my 1871 ms 65 red shallow N reverse.I would love to see it......and so would Irish Mike
Stewart
Thank you so much for the pictures. I really wish I could have gone to this show. It would have
been a fantastic education.
Dr. Steve
Looking for uncirculated Indian Heads and PRS electric guitars
link
Here is a pic of the 1876 mentioned by Shylock - I really thought this was a great discovery but the jury is out as to whether it's real or counterfeit - hopefully other specimens will become available to clarify.
Text
Thank you all for sharing (Stewart, Richard and Ally Collections) and of course Shylock!!
Rich
To all who stopped by the booth to say hello, it was a pleasure meeting you. I look forward to seeing you again at future shows. Next up is the FUN show. Perhaps another showdown?
bsearls@collectors.com
Set Registry & Special Projects Director
PCGS (coins) www.pcgs.com
PSA (cards & tickets) www.psacard.com
It was great to meet so many new members that I haven't met at previous shows.
And as always, it was great to see the "regulars" again
Even as a non collector I could appreciate how beautiful all three sets were!
Shylock..next time give me some warning and I'll look up
Paul knows the spirit this was intended.
The one that gets my goat is the ornamented (aka harp) shield reverse on the 1858 patterns - have never seen a single ornament on one!
The die is just as hard on both, but shallower on the "shallow N".
Everyone should join the Fly-In Club and learn the wealth of info in the "Longacre's Ledger" back issues.
***************************************************************************
The showdown has begun!
PCGS has a great setup with cowboy stuff all around: Guns, whips, spurs, handcuffs, hay and cowboy hats. They don't need the handcuffs because these guys are TAKING NO PRISONERS!
These sets are awesome! I looked over all three sets and gave each coin a "tumbs up", Thumbs down" or "Right on" for their respective grade. It's obvious that the clear winner in "quality for the grade" is Stewart Blay. His coins are all in their original holders (not consecutively numbered or recently regraded) Because of this there are many coins that have a shot at a higher grade: 1861, 1862(!), 1863, 1877 (A WOW), 1886 T1, 1888, 1893, 1900 (!), 1905, 1908, 1908-S (Prooflike). Only about 7 coins were LQ enough to warrant buying better examples. None had any major problems like spots, weak strikes, or RB color. Outstanding!
The Ally collection is also outstanding and is ranked second only because of the quality of some of the tough dates in the late 1860's and early 1870's. His 1877 is right on for the grade. The CN pieces are all exceptional. Many of the 1880's are exceptional as well. The set was recently sent in to get consecutive serial numbers, and was regraded at that time. As such, it no wonder that I saw only a few possible upgrade potential coins. 1873 Open 3, 1865 Fancy 5, 1885, 1886 T1, 1887, 1888, 1890, 1894, 1898, 1899.
The Richard collection is a worthy contender and is consecutively numbered as well. A few upgrade potentials are the 1863, 1864 CN, 1865, 1875 and 1899. A few including the 1877 were a bit LQ, and hurt the overall appeal. Everyone first looks at the 1877 first and if it dissapoints, it hurts the first impression. The set is exceptional, but does need a little work. I know the owner has a good eye.
I will report fully on the showdown in the upcoming issue of the Longacre's Ledger, The journal of the Fly-In Club: www.flyinclub.org
Rick Snow
This is what collecting is all about. I am trying to learn about the mint state grades of the Indian head cents and I have a feeling this is helping me on a fast track!
I would love to see more pics of the other coins.
Thanks to Stew, Ally, Tim, and, Shylock, Rick and anyone else who made this all possible. This is an orgy of looking at Indian head cents and I freely admit I do not have one like them!
"Mint fresh look" is an overused phrase but there's no other way to describe Blay's 1900 MS67RD. This date is normally found with mellowed color, as well as some degree of spotting and/or toning patches. On this example the surfaces are so pristine you feel like you could scoop up the mint frost as it oozes down the fields. If you net grade the few inconsequential 'problems' against all its attributes, why not MS68? A fleck, a few light contact marks, and a few slightly weak feathertips on the obverse, while the reverse should be in a guidebook showing what Indian cents look like in a perfect world. Try to imagine what this would look like if it weren't imaged through plastic.
Trade Dollar Nut - This was my first "slabbed" Indian cent purchase
in 1989 at the Pittsburgh ANA
Stewart
Great shots, especially the reverse! Wow....thanks for sharing it!
The sight of some of those makes me want to paint my face and dance around the fire!