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GAI set registry and SMR set to roll
Scoop
Posts: 168 ✭
Talked a while with Mike Baker last nite at Ft. Washington show.
He says that that they are almost ready to post a registry site on their website which is:
GAI website
Also, they will be introducing their new SMR guide. Mike did admit though, they are still in their relative infancy in grading, and do not have enough data (submissions) to come up with a pop report as of this time.
Interesting stuff. Any comments?
He says that that they are almost ready to post a registry site on their website which is:
GAI website
Also, they will be introducing their new SMR guide. Mike did admit though, they are still in their relative infancy in grading, and do not have enough data (submissions) to come up with a pop report as of this time.
Interesting stuff. Any comments?
building 1956 Topps PSA 8/9
0
Comments
Thats Nice.
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
<< <i>Mike did admit though, they are still in their relative infancy in grading, and do not have enough data (submissions) to come up with a pop report as of this time. >>
What a crock of shiit!
They certainly have the information to put together a pop report!
They know what they have graded so far don't they?
They do not want everyone else to know just how FEW cards
they actually have graded.
And as to the registry and "SMR" (which is a brand name by the way, so they can not use it!)
It is really funny to see the former employees of a company
go off on their own and then SIMPLY COPY EVERYTHING THEIR
OLD COMPANY DOES!
Hopefully MOST People are not stupid enough
tofall for this sad attempt.
Maybe we should care. Many novice collectors and the general public as well, assume any 9 or mint card is equal to any other, regardless of the grader. Plenty of beginners who may have become real hobby members are turned off when they realize they paid way too much for a graded mint example from bingo grading company. TV rants about the grading companies they use to over value many graded items.
We, the hobby or interested collectors, have NO journal, group, website, club, association, or any kind of organization to regulate , monitor, or even recognize grading companies. At least carpenters, cab drivers , doctors, and many other "professionals" have some formal training and get a liscense to practice their trade.
I know it's a free country, but in the USA most consultants, appraisers, advisors, and parties who can render "expert" opinions, are regulated somewhat. But any card collector who can get some slabbing equipment, advertises a bit, maybe has some dealer connections, or for whatever reasons/qualiifications can start up an "Expert grading company" in his garage.
Should we stick our heads in the sand, like an ostritch, and hope the unworthy graders will go away if we just ignore them ? I don't really know, perhaps it's too late to do any good. It's certain all non-big three graders are not unqualified boobs with a quick buck their only motive, but.... Wouldn't it be nice to have an unbiased, unrelated to a grading company, source provide some kind of monitoring for the graders ?
Wayne
There is NOTHING like healthy competition in the marketplace. Remember that they only came into existence as a DIRECT result of the rotten, inefficient, overpriced service that PSA provided when they were the only grading company (forget ASA).
Now PSA is the organization that it should have been from the get-go.
Prices are fair, service is superb, and they actually listen to and act upon customer complaints.
Sadly, some newer collectors will meet with a grim realization one day that their "Ace Grading Company Gem Mint 10" that they paid out the nose for, will have the same resale value of used cat hair.......but, I would venture to guess that each and every one of us have horror stories that we could tell.
We live....we collect...and accumulate experience.
The fly-by-night graders out there over time will fall by the wayside....and the serious grading companies with great credibility such as PSA will continue to be standing in the end.
Now...where's the free gradings for this testamonial I was promised.....
"There's no crying in baseball card set building."
From my view on the sidelines, the business of grading cards is a rough business. I don't think PSA can make money grading cards at $6 a whack. Not with the general overhead, and the labor, etc. The cost to the consumer will eventially go up as the competition disappears.
edited for spelling
If PSA had this program, I can assure you I would have saved hundreds in grading fees. Perhaps that is precisely the reason they don't have this program.
Mike B. also mentioned that one of PSA's head graders just got on board the GAI train last week. Wonder who it was? Chris? Charlie?
Ten minutes is all GAI needs to fully evaluate a card worth perhaps thousands of dollars ?? I also do not really like the idea of show grading for similar reasons as prior. Some type of this questionable"pre-screening" might be more suited to a send-in to the office, where there is no chance a pre card could be damaged/altered rather than allow a "pre" to be sent in for encapsulation at a later time.
Regardless of the accuracy, time, conditions, etc. for a "pre" card, it is quite subject to a change in the pre-grade rating if the owner does not exercize much care for the tape sealed, flexible, five cent holder it's in. If a pre-grade is shown to be an honest expert estimate of a card's potential final grade that seems reputable. If one can guarantee in ten minutes, the authenticity of the card, the precise measurement of the centering, the detection of minute flaws front and back, reference all others of this type/year to compare mentally, and the host of other elements which make up the overall appeal of a card, all this done in an unfamilar setting, not viewed privately in the home office......... hmmm, wouldn't you be just a little skeptical ???
<< <i>Mike B. also mentioned that one of PSA's head graders just got on board the GAI train last week. Wonder who it was? Chris? Charlie? >>
He was NOT the Head Grader.
His name is Danny Fisher.
Here is the thread that Details his move.
1954
I think GAI is making significant inroads and it is showing up primarily through national vintage dealers and auction houses who are carrying more of their graded cards. Other than friendships-past arrangements with Baker/Rocchi I don't know why the dealers are doing this. I really don't like finding a card I need for one of my sets in GAI 8 and then having to go through the whole crossover process if I really want the card. My only recourse is telling the dealers that to the extent they carry more GAI cards in the future I am likely to do materially less business with them. I am only one buyer but I do hope to influence these guys. All the stories about that certain major dealers were given better grades on reviews/resubmissions as they were friends of Baker also rubs me the wrong way about this company.
PSA in my opinion does a good job and having other grading companies in the mix is a nuisance I would rather do without.
I also feel GAI is going to be a force in the grading industry, it will take some time but they'll get there. Quality will always endure. PSA and GAI and even SGC will keep each other on there toes. The final product will benefit all collectors.
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
I started calling selective national dealers today and told them my business would dry up if they continued to expand their presense in GAI cards. There are some guys who I have done substantial business with that think its great that they are now offering customers a choice. I am now giving them a choice--I am not organizing a boycott of dealers who carry a lot of GAI cards but perhaps others will follow suit.
Davalillo
<< <i>can you register the FAKE 1963 bazookas mantles they graded? >>
Skinsfan, wasn't that FGS, not GAI, that graded the fake Bazookas? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Joe
i just bought a card graded PSA 8 for 20 dollars ...another dealer had the same card graded by GAI on ebay, same grade w/ a buy it now of 14 dollars. it didnt sell.
so unless that card would have been a PSA 7 to start with ..i just dont understand how dealers could be losing money in the name of friendship
i just dont bid on GAI or even SGC cards and i try to stick w/ sellers who deal mainly w/ PSA graded cards.
if they sell any other off brand stuff in large quantities i stay away at all from them.
Groucho Marx
Joe
I dont know you. I dont think you ever bought anything from me. I also dont sell cards for a living, but as a head of a company that provides a service, if you , a customer called me and told me that if I keep getting cards graded and sold them from a company other than the one you wanted I would tell you , "Thanks for you previous business, your patronage will be missed". You really have a huge set to go out of your way to make calls to businessmen or women who are trying to make a living by providing a service to a wide margin of collectors. There not there just to serve you. I might get some flack for writing this but your statements I found to be offensive, and they dont even effect me, so think about what the dealers you called must be thinking. You have a great collection, there's no debating that, but I think your out of line, as I might be writing this.
I told the dealers I was only speaking for myself and that their decisions would affect my business. I did it in a gentlemanly way and a couple said they had not considered that perspective. I have known these guys--at least some of them for --for at least 10-15 years and always tell them what I think. I think you are out of line for trying to tell me how I should interact with long term suppliers and friends that I have done a lot of business with in the past.
Davalillo
What about the fake Fro Joy Babe Ruth card that PSA just graded?
Aren't these the easiest of all fakes to spot?
There's no doubt that I'm out of line. I even said that with my last post. Lets also think, how long will your relationships last if your not buying cards from these people who need to make a living? Not very long. Are your sales going to support all of them? I dont think so. I was just stating a fact that if a customer came to me and said what you did , they wouldnt be a customer anymore. Dont think for a minute a few of them didnt tell you where to go under there breath after you said it. Lets also be realistic , I'm sure Mike Baker graded a huge amount of your collection. Are you not happy with the grade your cards are in? Is Mike Baker a worse grader now than when he was with PSA? I can tell you now that he's just as tough as he was with PSA. I can also tell you I'm having decent success with cracking out GAI 8's and getting PSA 9's, also every GAI 9 I broke out has returned from PSA with a 9. Does this mean PSA is slipping? No , not at all. GAI is trying to build a reputation, and for a flegling outfit there not doing a bad job. Has PSA not gotten better with SGC and GAI being there? Damn straight they have. Do I want my cards in PSA holders now? Yes.. I will also tell you this, you buy the card not the holder. If I find a GAI or SGC card that I like I'll buy it. If I wish to crack it out and resubmit to PSA I'll do that too. I just have to say, calling a businessman up whether he's a friend or not and telling him my business will dry up if you keep expanding into GAI in my opinion is ballsy.Your right, its none of my business, and I should keep my big mouth shut, but write a statement like you did on a public forum and you were either looking for someone to agree with you, or a group too. I didnt. Hope there's no hard feelings. I stated my opinion on the statement you made.
Bob
Not only are those dealer providing an additional service for some people, but they are doing a disservice to those people that would have been interested in those GAI cards that should have been in PSA holders.
I would think that a business owner would want feedback from some of their significant buyers before they are sitting there one day going, "Where are all of those clients that used to spend dough with us?"
In the long run, the dealers are going to buy and sell and submit where and when the market suggests.
It's true that they are not just there to serve one of us, but they have been given information by a customer (and they didn't even have to pay $3 for the survey). What ever they do with that information is up to them. They will make their own bed, and they will lay in it is well.
I think that you'll find that your going to have camps set up for each grading company. I'm not a PSA fan, or a GAI fan, I'm a card fan. I've always tried to but the card not the holder. I must also admit, sometimes I bought the holder.
Bob
Your right, you are. I think alot of collectors are now trying to get the cards graded themselves, cutting into the cost a little bit. I put up alot of commons now and the pricing is much less than it was. I'll probrably go back to selling raw lots. So if your looking for lots everyone email me and let me know. PSA did a great job at marketing the registry.
Bob
There are no hard feelings.
My view is that the people that I do business with should want to know how I feel about certain issues. Lets say if I have done an average of $50,000 withn a particular dealer over the past five years and on that $50,000 he makes $10,000(conservative) and lets say that represents 5% of his pretax income. I would think he would want to know how I feel. Look at all the money corporations spend to do customer surveys--I am providing feedback for free.
I am sure that Baker is as good a grader as anyone and no doubt he has graded thousands of my cards but that is not the point. Unlike some, I do not have the time and probably the expertise to submit GAI cards to psa. I have barely enough time to respond to my e mails at home, do my job and spend time with my family. It is simply easier for me if everything is in a psa holder as I collect psa cards and psa sets. Are these dealers mad at me--I don't think so...are they likely to change because I am voicing my opinion and threatening to withdraw business? Probably not--but maybe if GAI cards do not sell well or sell for markedly less than psa cards, they will remember my call and perhaps it will make a difference.
I understand where you are coming f5rom as a businessman but I think if you thouight about it you could see where I am coming from as well.
Davalillo
of Psa and Sgc graded cards. I'd consider myself as a small crumb of a buyer compared to Davalillo.
But I agree with his stance 100%. Just figured I'd let him know that he's not alone. I agree
for many of the same and several different reasons too. I won't bore everyone with my reasons.
Some of you on the board may even know some of them. I feel in the short time Gai has been
in existence, they have forced their presence upon the collector. I don't like it.
Just one guy's opinion...
aconte
I believe that was the point that Davalillo was trying to make. If a dealers inventory is mostly GAI cards and he is a PSA buyer, they are going to get less of his business. Cards that he might have bought that are in GAI holders are now "No Sales" to him.
I believe this industry has room for 3 (maybe 4) grading companies. GAI, through their contacts, friendships and PSA reputations, is just trying to be one of those companies. Let the market decide if there is room for them
Your point is well taken. Although I may not agree with collectors reluctance to purchase GAI cards. I can and do respect there right not to. I will say that there are real good buys on cards in "other" holders that collectors should look at, especially on tougher cards. You might get a good deal.
Bob
Bob,
Can you email me??? aponte@adelphia.net
Thanks,
Carlos
PS. Sorry to get off the topic..."I now return you to your regularly scheduled program."
<< <i>Dav,
Your point is well taken. Although I may not agree with collectors reluctance to purchase GAI cards. I can and do respect there right not to. I will say that there are real good buys on cards in "other" holders that collectors should look at, especially on tougher cards. You might get a good deal.
Bob >>
I would have no problems buying a GAI card if I could get it for a good price. The problem is that most sellers have opening bid or asking prices at or above the PSA market value. As far as I'm concerned, I view GAI as a generic brand. It may be every bit as good as PSA but they are still getting started and haven't established themselves as a company yet. SGC has been at it for years and yet they still often sell for less than thier PSA equivalents. If I can get a GAI card for a decent price to cross over to PSA, I'll buy it. But I won't pay PSA prices for GAI cards unless it's a card that is impossible to find (i.e., low to zero PSA populations).
I am not a proponent or shill for GAI. In fact, I have a vintage set in the PSA registry (rated 7.99) in which I have invested a significant amount of time and $$ as most of you all have. Within my set are cards that I 1.)bought raw and submitted myself (in which I chose PSA over others), 2.) bought already in PSA holders from dealers, auctions, private deals, or on internet (ebay, teletrade), and 3.) bought in other holders and crossed over to PSA. Which method of the three I used was simply a product of one thing and one thing only.....the most inexpensive way to acquire the (legitimate) card that I needed for my set. Now when I started, Mr. Baker and Mr. Rocci were with PSA, and in choosing PSA, I was likewise choosing to accept their expertise. So, unless I thought as some do that they were guilty of past indescretions such as favor grading or bumping up, why would I not choose them as a viable source now?
I also understand Davalillo's point of how many grading companies (even reputable) do we need? It simply makes us, 1.) chose a grading co. and stick with it, or 2.) buy card not holder and if cost and time justifies, cross over to holder of choice. All I can say here, is that the US is a free enterprise economy, and the consumer will eventually make it known as to whether your product or service will survive.
<< <i>I don't but GAI cards. Not because I don't like them, or believe their is a conspiracy or that the traders are not professional. I'm just comfortable with PSA. >>
I agree with this statement from Fabfrank 100%
that is it in a nutshell for most every collector here.
(and those that venture out to other brands,
it is almost with out question SGC or possibly BGS)
However, would you like to fly on a commercial airline with non-experienced pilots if they were economical and promised quicker flights? Would you choose the cheapest dentist to pull your tooth if he's not approved by some regulatory board ? Would you feel safe getting a taxi in downtown rush hour even though the cabbie has no drivers lic. ?
I know I must seem to be a harper, but wouldn't it be kind of good for the hobby to have SOME form of monitoring, regulation, approval, recognition, reporting, or any such thing of grading companies from an impartial source ?
I believe we can almost all agree that PSA and SCG with their experience and their relations to the older cion grading systems, are worthy and do not need approval/recognition. BGS probably , mainly due to tremendous card experience and data resources, also does not.
What about the other 30 or 40 "Expert Grading Companies" ? If a "key" employee leaves a big 3 outfit and starts one up, does that automatically make it professional ? CSA claims to be the 2nd oldest surving grader, aren't they therfore qualified ? Some claim to use objective computerized methods to grade cards, that sure sounds advanced.
I don't claim to know all about any grading company, but it's a shame many new collectors get duped or mislead with their first graded cards. I'm sure some non-big 3 are decent graders and pleasant to deal with. And of course all companies do make some mistakes. Doesn't some form of recognition/approval for gradong companies, even if by a small informal group of impartial hobbyists or to perhaps Sports Illustrated or ESPN, make some sense ?
This was certainly the strong vibe I got at National this year. It seemed like everyone I talked to was interested in high-end raw stuff that they'd submit on their own, whether for their own sets or to turn over and sell.
And expect an e-mail from me re: raw stuff
Mike
Regards,
Alan