does "slabbing it" take the fun out of going "raw"?

its4real

I have been wondering about this for a while now....

New to collecting, as I am, it appears that a lot of people are immediately suspect of ANY raw coin. Many seem to think that "if it's not slabbed - it's crap". What did these people do before? When there was no one to do thier grading for them?

Just looking for some insight on this but it seems to me that if I can grade myself - then I can REALLY look at a coin and determine it's value. I don't have to say "send it in and let's see!" because I would KNOW.

How many REALLY know and how can you tell if they know? It seems that a lot of people are quick to "slam" raw coins because they are either afraid of them or don't want to take a chance on them. Or is it because they are used to relying on the grading services?

Of course - if a coin is slabbed - then you REALLY KNOW it's grade right? No skill involved right? Or do you? Just curious....

Are the grading services - all of them - taking away the "edge" required of the individual collector?

kranky

Before slabs, when all coins were raw, people bought coins either (1) in person; or (2) from a trusted dealer. But some people bought from shady operators who sold whizzed, cleaned, polished XF coins as Uncs and threw 90% of their money away. The experienced collector generally knew better, but the stakes would just be raised as the coin doctors got better. Counterfeiters got better. A lot of people got screwed badly.

The top-tier slabbing outfits at least make sure people aren't getting outright fakes or altered coins, making it feasible to buy over the internet. Clearly grading is an opinion and no slabbing outfit bats 1.000. If they did, no one would even know what the term "crackout" meant.

What makes experienced people very leery of valuable raw coins is that everyone knows it would only cost a few bucks to get the coin slabbed which would increase the potential buying pool by a factor of 50. So it's hard to understand why that wouldn't be done, and the logical reason is that there's something wrong with the coin. Coins that aren't worth the slabbing cost trade raw all day long as the risk is small.

fcloud

I sold off most of my collection in 1980. No coins were certified in my collection at the time. The city I live in only has one dealer. I will give you one example of what happens when a coin is not certified.
I had a 1914-D $20 St. Gaudens in which I felt was in MS-65! The dealer offered me a price at XF. I told him he was incorrect and the coin was way better than $450 he was offering me. He offered for me to leave it on commision with him. We agreed I would get $750 if he was able to sell the coin (he tried to tell me that there was no way in which he could get that much money--what a hose job). When I went back in two weeks to get my coin (because he claimed there is no way it would sell at that high price). He had $1700 stapled to my receipt, he handed me the $750 I was owed. and stashed $950 in his pocket. If the coin was certified I would not feel I was ripped off by a dealer undergrading. Yes. I know how to grade coins, it is just some dealers are more fair than others. I took the rest of my collection to a dealer in a much larger city and received a fair value for the balance of the collection.

its4real

Kranky,

Excellent explanation - THANKS!

What about on the "mid-range" coins? Those that are CLOSE to being gradable - like a $120 coin for example - or even a $200 coin. Once graded, the owner of the coin is in for at least a $40 loss on it?

What about those coins?

jtryka

I think the slabbing companies (the top ones at least) make the market more secure, as they offer authentification and an independent opinion on grade. Before this, it was between the buyer and seller to determine the grade, and how uncomfortable it was to be forced to trust the person selling the coin for their opinion of the grade! They have a vested interest in the coin and that conflict of interest really put us buyers at a disadvantage.

However, as far as fun goes, slabs take the joy out of a lot of coins that have unique edges, like Saints, $10 Indians, and early coinage. They are so much more interesting when you can see the complete edge!

Dog97

<< <i>it appears that a lot of people are immediately suspect of ANY raw coin. Many seem to think that "if it's not slabbed - it's crap". >>

That's very correct because most of what we discuss here we can only see pictures of it on dealers' or auction websites where raw coins usually are problem crap coins because you can't see the problems in the pict. People dump their problem crap raw coins on sleazeBay due to this. In real life where I can see the coin first hand it makes little difference to me if it's raw or slabbed.

<< <i>How many REALLY know and how can you tell if they know? >>

I know and somebody see things pretty close to the way I do then I know that they know.

Android

I prefer to buy raw coins and have them slabbed myself. I'm pretty good at grading the series I collect, (32-64 Washingtons and Mercs) and, all though this may seem silly to some, I get them slabbed to confirm my own grading skills. My record is around 80% the same as the pros grade them with the remaining 20% within a point either way. That's part of the fun I get out of collecting. I only do this when I think the grade is MS65 and up. I do like the protection of the plastic as well.

I do buy some coins already slabbed, and these are the more rare ones that are very difficult to find NOT in a slab already. Buying them already slabbed though, for me, takes away the thrill of "The Hunt". There is no greater joy for me than looking through a dealers inventory and finding a true raw gem that has gone un-noticed or undergraded and is usually priced accordingly.

Andy

its4real

Android - I agree 100%! The Thrill of the hunt!

dorkkarl

in this era of "instant gratification" & "throw more money at the problem", slabs are a perfect fit. who wants to spend time and money learning how to GRADE coins for themselves, when you can just throw an extra 25 bucks at every coin you buy & be done w/ it?

i guess that now, instead of buying 5 coins and getting ripped off for 100 bucks on 1 of them being whizzed, you spread the overcharge across the 5 coins by paying 100 bucks in certification charges. the difference is that now, you are being told up front that you'll be overcharged the 100 bucks.

note that i'm referring to coins in the 100 dollar range (or so). if you ask someone like anthony swiatek (who coincidentally has mountains of slabed coins for sale), he will tell you that every coin worth $100 or more should be slabbed.

sheesh

yeah, things are different. but are they really better?

K S

nwcs

Another thing to remember is that before the ANA attempted to standardize grading in the 70s, the terminology of grades depended on who you were talking to. Grading standards were the first attempt to remove deceit. Slabs were the next logical step.

Think of it this way, you need to change your oil. You're either a do-it-yourselfer or a go-to-mechanic-person. If you trust your understanding, you'll save money by doing it yourself and maybe swing good deals. If you go to a mechanic, you'll always pay more but you generally have reasonable assurance of quality and can hold someone accountable for a botched job.

Same with slabs. If you trust your knowledge and instincts, then raw can be great. If not, slabs are a great way to work within the hobby.

Neil

LucyBop

As a result of buying slabbed coins, I now know what PCGs is looking for on Franklins and I buy lots of raws that I think will fit within their grading criteria...I just haven't submitted anything yet....