Home PCGS Set Registry Forum

Registry Integrity. Would you have a problem with the following scenerio?

What if you knew the Registry in your series, right ABOVE yours had been removed from the PCGS holders and placed into some type of capsules and/or Coin Album? The owner has all the inserts and plans to keep all the coins.
Does this infringe on the integrity of the Registry at all? Should only HOLDERED coins be allowed to be in the Registry and as soon as the coin is removed from the holder it should then be removed from the Registry?
I know there are pros and cons to this scenerio- and simply call the above Collector ecentric for doing what he did, but I'm curious as to your opinion.

peacockcoins

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Comments

  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No problem, the registry claims to have the "finest coins". The owner would still own the coins, how anyone can argue I do not know.
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • Really Pat - I couldn't care less - certifying the coins serves two purposes - one to help protect one's investment and two to help protect one's coins. If the person ahead of me decided to blow the holders off and just enjoyed having his or her collection in another receptacle, more power to'em. Bottom line - I enjoy MY coins, I look at other people's - but my babies, at least for now are mine! image

    Frank
  • RegistryCoinRegistryCoin Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭✭
    The main problem would occur if the coins are re-holdered, I would think.
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,515 ✭✭✭
    As long as the owner hasn't sold off the coins, wouldn't bother me at all.

    Russ, NCNE
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,994 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Alright, I get your lines of reasoning, but riddle me this: Is it the same "Coin" once it is out of the holder?
    Is the integrity of the coin at issue?
    Obviously once it's removed, PCGS makes no claim to the coin in regards to any warranty of grade or authenticity.
    It would seem, once the coin is popped out of the PCGS protected holder it is no longer a "PCGS COIN" (don't get me wrong- I know it's YOUR coin) and if it's no longer a "PCGS COIN" should it be allowed to remain in the "PCGS Registry"?

    peacockcoins

  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    As long as the coin remains in the same condition it should not matter what holder/case/ect. it is in. The coin if sent back to PCGS (in theory) should grade the same. It is okay.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • raycycaraycyca Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭
    How would anyone know? I don't think it's right that the coins should still be in the "Registry" because the integrity would be violated. I dare anyone to send PCGS a coin they have broken out and see if they reholder it at the same grade without going thru the grading process. I didn't think so! They can't because the coins would all be sent to PCGS claiming higher grades. The reason for encapsulation is to guarantee being certified as genuine and graded as a certain grade... at least that day by that set of graders... subject to higher/lower grades in the future. This way you can theoretically get some/all of your money back if you purchase a coin and later is proves fake/overgraded. Just my opinion! Sometimes I purchase coins (gasp) without a holder! I even (sorry) bought an ICG graded dollar yesterday simply because of the toning. It looks genuine, but even if it's not, I still like the coin. I usually but the coin but in my Kennedy series, I have actually bought a couple because of the holder. I'm sure I'm not the first. If I ever break out a PCGS coin I WILL contact PCGS to have it removed from the registry number game. I wish everyone would do that. We would then have a true population of graded coins.
    You only live life once, enjoy it like it's your last day. It just MIGHT be!

    image
  • The coin earned it's place in the registry the first time around. Think of all the trouble that at least two collectors would have to go through to sell, crack, reholder, and register a coin - why bother!

    Frank
  • SpoolySpooly Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭
    I think Pat has a point. Looks like the "basic" rule should be the coin must be in the holder. If you don't things get crazy real fast.

    Crack them out..... sell them.
    Crack them out..... get them graded again.
    Crack them out..... send them to NGC for grading.
    Ect.....Ect

    Most dealers could have a "Registry" set with all the cracked out inserts. Matter of fact... I have a stack of inserts from crackouts.....

    For sale:

    1937- D Texas Comm MS-67 $20.00 Sold!
    1937- D Texas Comm MS-66 $15.00
    1937- S Texas Comm MS-66 $15.00
    1937- S Texas Comm MS-67 $20.00 Sold!
    1937 Texas Comm MS-67 $20.00 Sold!
    1938- S Texas Comm MS-66 $20.00
    1935- S Texas Comm MS-66 $15.00

    Will post all the Lincoln inserts later.











    Si vis pacem, para bellum

    In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hmmm... so now it's not just about the coin or the coin being graded by the right company, it's about the plastic holder around the coin. Bah!
  • The Registry is for friendly competition, although collectors can get carried away. Sometimes, we try to improve our Registry scores, without really improving our collections.

    Personally, I really don't care what the people ahead of me do. I'm comfortable with my coins, and use the Registry for what it's supposed to be used for (friendly competition) and to showcase my collection.

    Although, I see a problem with this scenario when you consider annual awards, all-time finest, etc. Spooly makes a great point that you could sell the labels on the black market for instant Registry fame. It would be a shame for someone with a true #1 set, to be outranked by someone who just bought the labels; especially for the rarer series.
    "Buy the coin, not the holder"

    Proof Dime Registry Set
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,282 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd have a problem - those uncertified coins are just as disqualified as my raw or monster NGC coins. We've all seen coins damaged by the crack out process, subsequent handling or the environment - who's to say they would regrade the same??.

    As an aside, the registry is not about the finest coins - it's about PCGS promoting it's business. If you want to know who has the finest collection, arrange a "showdown" at a major show. Allow all holders/raw coins and have knowledgable collectors/dealers vote (don't ask me how people would qualify as knowledgable - that's another issue). It unfortunately becomes so cumbersome (and risky to the coin owners) that it's clear why the registry will have to serve as a flawed proxy for the "finest known collection".
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭
    i guess for me i would like to see the coin if it is registered be in the holder if not then it no longer qualifies

    not that the coin is any better or worse off but there has to be some sort of minimum requirement if you are participating and i understand it is not a perfect system as all coins are different even in the same grade holders and some lesser graded coins may even be better but i think there is more chaos of you register a set and then break the coins out

    sincerely michael
  • Where do you draw the line? If this owner sells the coin, and sends the insert with it, should the new owner be permitted to add it in his registry? The fact is that a non-encapsulated coin has a higher risk of damage (which would reduce its grade). So, on the one hand, I do not have a problem with the scenario that is at issue in this thread---I am all for registering and enjoying the coins, not the slabs. But, on the other hand, I can certainly see some reasons to disallow it. So I guess you can count me as a real strong undecided!!

    Pete
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My vote: The PCGS Registry permits PCGS slabbed coins only. Once a coin comes out of the PCGS holder, it is not a coin permitted in the PCGS Registry. It may be many other things - it just isn't a PCGS Registry coin anymore.

    After all consider this: Break a coin out of the PCGS holder and keep it in your registry set. Then, slab it with NGC. Now, the same coin is entered in both registry sets showing two entirely different serial numbers. That's a "no-no". image

    Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hope no one comes after me image

    Of course, I could send it to NGC (or sell it), but then again, that was not part of the question posed.
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • Once it is out of the holder, it should be out of the registry. The registry is not about best collections, it is about best PCGS certified collections. Once it out of the holder, it is no longer PCGS certified or guaranteed, and can't be sold as such. Who is to say the coin wasn't damaged or what not when cracked out.

    Enforcement is another issue. Frankly, if it were a registry I was in and I knew about the crack-out, I would ask the collector to take it out voluntarily. If he/she didn't, I would at least consider asking PCGS to make the request. Am I a tough guy? Am I a mean guy? Perhaps, but while it is a fun game for lot's of people, it is serious business to others. Those who invest thousands or even millions of dollars to get the best in the world, and want to prove it may be sick, but should also expect integrity.

    If it were my coin, this is my policy. If I cracked it out for a regrade, I would send it in right away. Once the regrade came, I would delete and re-enter regardless of the new grade. If I cracked it out for other reasons, I would immediately delete.

    And there it is!image

    Greg
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The PCGS Registry permits PCGS slabbed coins only

    Well, we already know this is not true. See the recent thread regarding estimated sets.

    The Registry is about ranking coins. If a coin has been graded by PCGS it has been ranked. If PCGS has enough info to estimate the grade, it's been ranked. Whether it's still in the holder or regraded by another company is totally irrelevant - it's still the same coin. Regarding the possibility of damage, who's to say a coin hasn't turned in the PCGS holder? You just can't tell the quality of the coin in or out of the holder, so you use PCGS's grade as the starting point.

    Let's say that I put my 1885 in a PCGS holder because I wanted a complete set and then cracked it out and put it back in the NGC holder. So what????? PCGS has graded it - they've assigned a ranking. It should be irrelevant what's done with the coin after they've graded it. As long as I own that coin and the condition hasn't changed, I should be able to do what I please with the insert that I paid $100 to get (short of cheating and selling the coin and keeping the insert on the Registry).

    Or how about the Childs 1804 dollar? I know for a fact that coin is out of the holder. How can anyone really complain if that coin is entered into a type set on the registry? It's been graded by PCGS - it's been ranked as the number one 1804. To say it's not eligible because it's not still in the holder is as rediculous as NGC not allowing early proofs in their type set!
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In fact, I submit that until the "Estimated Sets" are removed from the Set Registry, that one can do as he pleases - up to and including cracking a coin out and having it in another company's holder. These "Estimated Sets" are coins that have never even been formally graded by PCGS and currently reside in many different holders. At least the coin that's cracked out has been graded, which makes it infinitely more acceptable than an "Estimated Set".
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,515 ✭✭✭
    IMO, TDN just ended the debate. Any contrary assertion past this point is offered simply for the sake of argument.

    Russ, NCNE
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,267 ✭✭✭
    I think tradedollarnut provides evidence of Spooly's assertion, and thus points out a fatal flaw in the registry.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • prooflikeprooflike Posts: 3,879 ✭✭
    I think once it is out of the PCGS holder, it is no longer a registered coin with PCGS, therefore not a registered coin, therefore not allowable in the registry. There are some 'insert' collections in the registry and are titled as such.

    image
  • tjkilliantjkillian Posts: 5,578 ✭✭✭
    I agree completely with Tradedollarnut. The registry is about PCGS graded coins, not the fact that the coin is in a PCGS slab.

    Tom
    Tom

  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is a solutionimage.Have PCGS make it mandatory that anyone in the top 5 must submit there coins to them.....Freeimage..Al
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can't speak to the notion of estimated sets - the whole thing sounds problematic to me. And, two wrongs never equalled a right in my book. So, it is a distinction with a difference. Interesting analogy, but nondeterminative to the question at hand. Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • >It would be a shame for someone with a true #1 set, to be outranked by someone who just bought the labels; especially for the rarer series
    Please don't start THAT whole mess again. image

    On an intellectual level, I have no problem with what you describe. In a perfect world
    there would be nothing wrong with this.

    However in THIS world I wouldn't approve at all. As everyone else has said, who's to
    say the coin is in the same condition now as it was in the holder. Who's to say the
    owner is still in possession of it.

    I've heard of people who like to slab coins to have them authenticated and then break
    them out. I suppose if you never plan on interacting with the outside world (selling
    them, comparing registered collections, etc) then that's fine, although I would probably just
    settle for getting an opinion from PCGS for free at one of the shows if I didn't like
    my coins in slabs. I don't think you can expect people to take your word for it that they
    coins you have outside of slabs match up with the collection of paper grades you have.

    If you don't like slabs, don't participate in the registry.

    -KHayse
    ps Yeah, get rid of those estimated grade sets too.
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cracked Out Coins, Labels Only, Estimated Grades, Opps, better go to the Set and Adjust before someone finds out. image Better get the Web Site and Ebay Pictures out also.
    Hard Research down the Tube. Shucks, and to think only 5 or 6 more were left to find.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just think...

    If you owned the King of Siam Proof Set, which would they look better in- the PCGS holders they were in at one time, or the original presentation case?

    It's an interesting question. I am of the opinion that it doesn't matter if the coins don't change hands. However, outside the protection of the slabs, the coins are subject to a variety of things that might change them, which is a sticky problem. I certainly think the King of Siam set looks better in its original case than in a bunch of modern plastic holders. (And yet I would be terrified of keeping the coins outside of the holders).

    image

    image

    What does this have to do with the Registry? Not much. Guess I got off-track a bit.
    But I'll take any excuse to look at those pictures again, LOL. image

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,717 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>My vote: The PCGS Registry permits PCGS slabbed coins only. Once a coin comes out of the PCGS holder, it is not a coin permitted in the PCGS Registry. It may be many other things - it just isn't a PCGS Registry coin anymore.

    After all consider this: Break a coin out of the PCGS holder and keep it in your registry set. Then, slab it with NGC. Now, the same coin is entered in both registry sets showing two entirely different serial numbers. That's a "no-no". image

    Wondercoin >>



    And the constantly misquoted rule states:

    In order to list your set as current, you must own the coins you are listing or be an agent with permission to represent a collection. A coin is not considered owned by you if you have sold it to another, regardless of buyback or return policies. Furthermore, this coin should be removed from your set.

    If you own it and PCGS graded it, you can list it.
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • Wait a minute now, don't attempt to selectively place what you want them to say by leaving out the paragraph directly preceding the one you quoted.

    Here it is, in case you couldn't read it:



    << <i>Each set listed as current is comprised of PCGS coins certified in accordance with our usual standards. Many of the “All-time finest” sets are comprised of PCGS coins, while others predated PCGS and were made up of uncertified coins. For these pre-PCGS sets, the grades have been estimated by our expert contributors and listed with an asterisk(*). >>

  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And the coin listed would have been graded by PCGS, probably even in accordance with their usual standards.
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • If it is not in their slab any longer, no matter what, PCGS standards and the grade and any other thing else pertaining to the slab that the coin was previously in no longer is withstanding. It is now not a PCGS coin and therefore doesn't meet its rules because it is only comprised of PCGS coins, which said coin would no longer be.

    If a coin is not sealed by PCGS and in one of their slabs, it does not belong in the PCGS Registry. You may play semantics as you wish in whatever reasoning you have to do so, what is your reason for doing so by the way? I'm sure it's just so PCGS will more clearly define its rules so that the politically correct will have no other reason for arguing about what should be included.
  • SpoolySpooly Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭
    Good post andy007!


    I still have some inserts for sale! $5.00 discount to collectors with a Registry Set!
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

    In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
  • cool, the Spooly post of approval award.

    Seriously, of course there are numerous loopholes and ways to get around and manipulate the PCGS Registry. If that's what some people feel is necessary to pump up their ego or whatever reason they have for making their sets look good, that's fine with me. There are loopholes in many things in life, if you want to be a cheat and have no integrity to what the Registry is designed for, have at it. I collect coins, those cheaters or whatever you want to call them can go right ahead and collect numbers and look good in the registry all they want. I don't agree with it, but suggest a suitable way how to make sure this doesn't happen and I will be all for it. I don't agree with the estimated sets, but they are there in all their inherent flaws.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Andy: with all due respect, it is really stupid of you to start accusing people of cheating, having no integrity and pumping up their egos just because you have a different interpretation than me of what a "PCGS coin" means. I believe that a "PCGS coin" means a coin that has been certified by PCGS, such as the Childs 1804 dollar. You believe that a "PCGS coin" means a coin actually in the PCGS holder. We have a difference of opinion...that does not warrant your last post.

    It's already insane enough that the Registry is limited to one class of coinage - but the reasoning is sound. The coins are ranked under one standard of grading (as if that has actually existed over the last 14 years). But to infer that a coin graded under that standard is not worthy of inclusion just because it doesn't reside in the plastic is going one step too far!
  • TDN,

    I concur.

    -KHayse
  • tradedollarnut,

    I was referring to those, meaning when I said "cheaters", those who know longer own the coin and retain its serial number in their Registry. The registry set is for coins slabbed(not in the past, not at one time, but during its inclusion in anyone's set) by PCGS.

    Your previous post here,



    << <i>Hmmm... so now it's not just about the coin or the coin being graded by the right company, it's about the plastic holder around the coin. Bah! >>



    That's the way it should be with the PCGS Registry and I feel that's how PCGS intended it, if they didn't feel it needed to be in their plastic, they would include raw coins or other services' coins. Also, why the need to call my opinion stupid???? Shouldn't that also refer to Typetone, raycyca, wondercoin, spooly, and on and on and on?

    Edited to Add: To further clarify what I said re: "cheaters" If PCGS wanted you to add any coin to the Registry, why not let you add an NGC coin? Or whoever's ACG coin, or add a raw coin. It is inclusive to PCGS coins only, and if you do not own a coin slabbed in the PCGS slab while it is in the PCGS Registry, that is not following what I feel and others obviously, of what the PCGS Registry is for. I always thought cheat meant to do violate something dishonestly, which is what someone is knowingly doing if they place coins not slabbed by PCGS in their registry. I concur that it is stupid to think you should be able to add any coin not currently slabbed by PCGS in their registry, if not, then don't play the PCGS game or participate in their registry.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I apologize if I misinterpreted your post. I am in agreement that it's PCGS's registry and since they choose to only allow PCGS certified coins that those are the only coins allowed. However, I disagree that a coin MUST be in the holder. I feel that if PCGS has graded the coin, it's irrelevant whether it's cracked out and put in a capital plastics or other holder or even sent to NGC. Some collectors prefer NGC holders over PCGS. Some collectors prefer raw coins. To each his own. If you've paid for PCGS's opinion as to the quality of your coin, you've paid for the right to participate in the Set Registry.

    If the owner of the Childs 1804 were to choose to post his coin here I would welcome him with open arms - even tho the coin is no longer in the holder.
  • TDN Said all that needs to be said
    LOOKING FOR 1931-s merc that is nice for the grade and fb
  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Folks,

    If I paid for a coin in a PCGS slab, and I crack out the coin and keep both the coin and the insert, then it's my business what I do with the insert and the coin. I can put the coin in a paper flip or submit it to NGC or whatever. I can also register my coin in the Registry game.

    I paid for the right to do that, and unless someone can force me to de-register my entry, then it stays.

    Does anyone else here understand that?!? I paid for the coin, it's plastic and the stupid paper insert that comes with it a serial # and a grade. I PAID FOR IT, AND I WILL DO WITH IT WHAT I PLEASE.

    Anyone who disagrees is welcome to disagree. It's only a matter of opinion. But, it's only your opinion. You may even have an opinion that I give you all my coins, but that's not going to happen either.

    So, bottom line: no one can tell me what to do. I paid for that right.

    If anyone wants to call me a cheat or something negative, well, you can but it won't be productive nor appropriate. Remember that we're having a disagreement over the interpretation of the rules of the game, and that simply is a difference of opinion.

    EVP

    [edited to fix typo]

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,717 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>cool, the Spooly post of approval award.

    Seriously, of course there are numerous loopholes and ways to get around and manipulate the PCGS Registry. If that's what some people feel is necessary to pump up their ego or whatever reason they have for making their sets look good, that's fine with me. There are loopholes in many things in life, if you want to be a cheat and have no integrity to what the Registry is designed for, have at it. I collect coins, those cheaters or whatever you want to call them can go right ahead and collect numbers and look good in the registry all they want. I don't agree with it, but suggest a suitable way how to make sure this doesn't happen and I will be all for it. I don't agree with the estimated sets, but they are there in all their inherent flaws. >>



    In the scenario of this thread who is pumping up whos ego? It looks like the person with the inferior set wants to have their sit listed as being better than a superior set. I guess we had better close this loophole!
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All very interesting posts here image

    The Rules of Registry are designed (I hope) to protect the honest collectors who are participating in the Registry competition/game. By requiring only PRESENTLY slabbed PCGS to be eligible, IMHO, PCGS best protects the honest collector out there. No one here is concerned with TDN trying to cheat anyone. But, with more than 4100 registered sets, surely there may be a couple "bad apples" out there intent on causing disruption/embarrassment to Registry?

    And, if an HONEST Registry participant desires to remove his coins from the holders and not tell anyone - then there might be no harm whatsoever. But, unfortunately, in this society, rules are often not made with the law-abiding in mind.

    Wondercoin.
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    I guess the ownership is more the question for me. If the owner still has the coin, has broken it out for a safer storage method (or just likes raw), I still feel it is okay for them to list; however, the proof is lost, and the coin could be cleaned, dropped, dipped, dinged or who-knows-what once it is out of the holder.

    Furthermore, what would stop people from building a paper label collection?

    When I really think about, only a choice handfull of coins could be verified that they where in the holder and in the same condition, so my vote would be if it is out of the holder, it not be listed in fairness to others trying for those few top sets.

    At first I thought it was okay, this thread has changed my mind.

    Tonyimage

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    But, unfortunately, in this society, rules are often not made with the law-abiding in mind.

    I must confess that I find this to be a very good point. (As if anyone really cares about *my* opinion!)

    Just thinking out loud for a moment...

    What does it really matter if someone cheats and puts up an entry with no coin behind it? I understand that people have spent their hard-earned money into purchasing their beloved coins, and they want to receive their due. And, no one wants to feel cheated.

    But, suppose there is a cheater among us. I'm not trying to make light of this issue, but: so what? Really, I don't see what the real harm is for someone to cheat. Let's suppose I have a very nice Capped Bust Half set, but mine is just a shade behind the next better set. If I cheat and enter a serial number of a coin I do not have, and eke out a better score than that other set, so what?

    What have I gained? Ok, what I *really* gained?

    Suppose, as a gag, someone puts in a high ranking set of just inserts and advertises it as such. Personally, I'd find that hilarious. If someone did that without advertising it as such, well, so what? It's not like he can enjoy what he did because he can't tell anyone...

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,994 ✭✭✭✭✭
    EVP- Good point, but I would hope, not unlike inflated Pop Reports, it would not infringe on the value of the other sets registered. That wouldn't be fair.

    peacockcoins

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In our society, we have chosen to let a few cheaters walk free in order to protect the rights of the innocent. The concept is "innocent until proven guilty" and "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt".

    If we change the rules then the honest participants will be the only ones harmed. The cheaters will still cheat because there's absolutely no way to verify that they aren't cheating. Therefore, I say that we err on the side of protecting the honest collector who simply desires a different method of storing his coins.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And one last thought that perhaps can be confirmed by a few of the dealers amongst us:

    If you take your coin that has been graded but cracked out back to PCGS along with the insert, they will reholder the coin at the same grade.

    This indicates to me that the grade follows the coin - not the hunk of plastic around the coin. And if the grade follows the coin, then as long as you own the coin it should be able to be on the Set Registry.
  • SpoolySpooly Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭
    If you take your coin that has been graded but cracked out back to PCGS along with the insert, they will reholder the coin at the same grade.

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  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "If you take your coin that has been graded but cracked out back to PCGS along with the insert, they will reholder the coin at the same grade."

    Not as a general rule, but on a case by case basis I believe that may be correct. After all, what if I break an ugly toned coin out of the holder, dip it and it comes out lusterless with some major ticks revealed that were nicely hidden by the tone? Who would want PCGS to put that coin back in the same holder? IS THIS THE "EXACT SAME" COIN it was before it was broken out of the holder image Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have seen coins re-holdered with the old insert grade many times. When you start to mention: "Is it the exact same coin etc", you are again missing the context of the thread. If you crack it out, and it falls on the floor, you would not expect to have it holdered as the previous grade (same for removing tone etc). I am certain they still evaluate each coin to determine if there is something significantly wrong compared to the grade listed on the previous insert. Perhaps I have a scewed frame of reference as my dealer is the most honest person I have ever met.
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
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