Graded Set on ebay
theBobs
Posts: 1,136 ✭✭
Where have you gone Dave Vargha
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
0
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Vintage Baseball Cards
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Lloyd_Taylor_Vintage_Cards -- on Ebay
That set is #5 on the Registry, at 91.4% complete with a GPA of 7.51.
It is not my set and I will not be bidding on it.
As for the "ga-ga" comments above, I would only point out the following:
- 49 cards are missing, many of them are among the tough ones (#11, #222, etc.)
- 19 cards have qualifiers and should be upgraded.
- 3 cards are graded PSA 5 EX and need upgrading.
- 48 cards are graded PSA 6 EX-MT and need upgrading.
- 20 cards are graded 9, over half of which were graded at a show and probably borderline (pay the higher fee, get 1/2 to 1 grade bump up).
- That leaves 157 PSA 7 NM and 276 PSA 8 NM-MT.
Conclusion: An average attempt at an average set. Assuming the winner would upgrade & add the 119 cards that fall short, the set is not quite 80%. If I owned the set, I'd sell the 9's, dump the 5's, 6's and qualifiers and spend the money to pick up the other 119, plus replace the 20 PSA 9's in NM-MT 8, if I could. But that would take quite some time, considering the scarcity of the missing cards.
That would give the owner about a 7.75 GPA and he's still no better than #4 on the Registry.
The bigger point of this set being listed is the "bail-out" scream being heard. I predict we'll see many more vintage sets hit the auction block during the rest of this calendar year. The market is soft and marginal sets such as this need to be sold, broken up and/or abandoned. I wouldn't be surprised to see SEVERAL of top-of-the-line sets offered for sale after the Registry Awards are announced.
You heard it here first.
As for the quality of the set, it does have a wide range of grades but the bulk of the set is there in PSA 8 or better. It is quite an impressive collection that hardly would be considered "average". If I were starting a 1959 set at the moment, I would be trying to find a way to scare up the cash to win this lot.
Regarding people dumping their registered sets, I'm sure there'll be people cashing out but I doubt "several" will be dumped. As owner of the current #1 1969 set, I can safely say that I have absolutely no intention of selling that set. I'm sure the majority of the top sets will remain with their current owners and continue to be upgraded. Long time collectors such as Davalillo, Stonegate, Marshall Fogel, Charles Merkel and others show no signs of dumping their sets and it's been a long time since those sets were completed. I think the sets that are more at risk are the 1972 and newer sets since they are relatively easy to replace and the prices are more likely to go down as the populations go up. Populations on the early 60's and older sets are slowing down. Those values are likely to go up (for commons) and the stars will likely recover when the economy gets well.
My only question about this lot is whether the owner is really serious about selling it or is wanting to "appraise it" by setting an astronomical reserve and seeing how high the bidding goes.
its a very solid set and the seller does not appear to be "dumping" the set. he does have a reserve and sort of made it clear that he expects a high bid for him to sell.
i think this is just a test auction...
Groucho Marx
If you look at the fact it is rated 7.5 currently I would guess the SMR is about $20,000 with 8 days to go if the reserve is around that price it may just sell ...
Groucho Marx
gemmint:
Serial numbers beginning with 07 or 08 are cards that are submitted and graded at major shows for $25-$50. It is common knowledge that such submissions get preferential treatment. If one is willing to pay $50 to grade a card in 24 hours, why not give the card the benefit of the doubt. Is it fair? No. Is it right? No. But it is the way things are.
Take a look at your own set(s). Find all the cards with 07 & 08 serial numbers. See for yourself if you think they would grade the same on a $6 special. If you are still so confident, crack 'em out and send 'em in. All of them, not just a select few. I predict you'll get a rude awakening.
I have had pretty good luck with the registry special and have found no correlation between grades and what I pay for submission. FWIW, I had even better luck with the free grades given for set completion.
Regards,
Alan
<< <i>I agree. I doubt it gets sold on CheapBay the first time around anyway. >>
Gemmint-
Ive noticed that youve called Ebay "CheapBay" several times. Are you faulting savvy consumers for paying less for their cards, eliminating the middleman (dealer), and saving money in the process? Not to mention that the "average Joe" seller is now getting more for his cards on a percentage basis then he would ever get from a dealer. The business model of selling cards full retail because you are a "dealer" is slowly dying.....now people have thousands of choices on where or who they purchase cards from.
Options are a good thing.
John
P.S. - Toppsgun.....solid insight!
<< <i>The business model of selling cards full retail because you are a "dealer" is slowly dying.....now people have thousands of choices on where or who they purchase cards from. >>
Well said!!!
Maybe quickly dying.
As to selling sets, people do it all the time and for a myriad of reasons. Having a Set Registry and a forum such as eBay merely facilitates the selling of those cards. As stated above, there isn't any "dumping" that I can see. People will always jump into graded sets only to find that after 60-80% completion, the task becomes extremely difficult. There will always be a decent number of those lots available as those collectors throw their hands up in despair and call it quits on a given set.
<< <i>I have received well over SMR for my 1951 Bowmans and still have several cards left. >>
David,
The question is what percentage of SMR overall did you pay for your set? For example, if you paid crazy money for some of the low pops....even if you sell at SMR...you will still net a loss. Later on after all your cards are sold...I would be intersted how it all worked out for you.
John
That is good to hear....its nice to see that you wise purchase decisions of the past are providing a healthy return today.
John
1954
You make some points that have crossed my mind ever since the grading phenomenon has hit the card industry.
The fact that thousands and thousands of dollars are at stake depending on the subjective consensus of whatever 2 to 3 graders see, is a formula for suspicion no matter how reputible the grading company is. Borderline cards practically invite shady business practice, as any evidence of collusion or misdeed can easily be explained.
I, as you, have suspected favoritism for (in no particular order): high-volume dealers, payoffs, paybacks. And such problems as volume in submissions, particularly as pertains to on-site same-day or next-day grading, where cards may be rushed through the process.
I have personally re-submitted over 75 (out of 150 total submissions) PSA 6's, and 7's that I thought were undergraded, and got back 90% with the higher grade. I also had one submission of 13 cards come back with 3 PSA 9's (the only ones) and 10 PSA 8's...would these be considered overgraded ??(I did not re-submit, by the way...would anyone?)
Overall, PSA has done an outstanding job, but skepticism is understandable and will persist. "Buying the holder, not the card," will always be the rule of thumb, but consistancy and honesty needs to be the credo for all "legitimate" companies.
Sorry for getting a little off track. As far as this partial set goes, I totally agree that this is an appraisal auction, as you can hear in the seller's tone. The question is, is it worth the 20 to 30% incresed net of break-up value in terms of the time involved in selling one by one. Seems fine to me, maybe I will open a business taking on consigned sets and breaking them up and listing on ebay. Oops, I should have kept that to myself.
I dont know the seller either but I can respect and admire anybody who accumulates their way to 91% whether its 59'T or any other major issue.
Gemint - I wouldnt mind owning this set myself. IMHO there is a lot to like about it. Like you, I dont ever plan to sell my 69' set so you wont find me "dumping" mine anytime soon.. There is always room for upgrade and future fun.
Whatever happened to the prevailing view that a solid NRMT set is a quality set. In the days before PSA if someone presented a solid NRMT 1959 Topps set it would garner a fair amount of respect and be a desirable one to own and cherish.
With the advent of grading and PSA, NRMT has become somewhat of a curse it seems. Commons graded PSA 7 NRMT often have a hard time overcoming the grading fees(sweeping generalization, I know) as far as value goes, thereby diminishing their desirability, perhaps wrongly so. In most cases, that card is still a pretty nice card.
We often let this become a numbers game where only an 8 or only a 9 will do. I will even admit to being occassionally guilty. But ultimately I find myself being very satisfied with the 7's that reside in my set. Will I upgrade them? Yes; if the card is inherently nicer; absolutely because thats where I'm headed at thats my goal.
My point is that a set that is 91% complete with a 7.51 GPA is a solid NRMT+ set. Pointing out and criticizing its individual weaknesses by the numbers is easy to do. But I tend to see the side of optimism. The numbers say 7.51 GPA.
It may sound like I am an advocate for raw sets. Nothing could be further from true. I love grading, I love authentication, I love encapsulation and PSA provides the service I seek. In a technological world that allows you to buy and bid cards strictly from available scans this service helps pave the way to obtaining quality cards for my sets.
My advise for new collectors, those on a fixed budget and those who just want to own and cherish great cards from our hobbies pastime, dont dismiss solid PSA 7 NRMT. You might be passing up some really nice cards.
I'll get off my stump now.
On a side note: When I surf the registry looking at sets from the 50's, 60's, and 70's I notice a lot of fine efforts with GPA's between PSA grade 7 and 8. I applaude anyone who has spent serious time endearing themselves to building a graded set in this grade. Take pride in the fact that you own a "solid" NRMT+ effort. I am sure its a beauty!
RayB69Topps
Good thread. Generated a lot of well-thought out, but not overly passionate discussion.
Look, I'm thankful for PSA 7-8 sets (7.51 is right smack dab in the middle). I collect 'em and as I upgrade, other collectors help support my efforts as we trade cards for money. I've sort of put an upper limit on my collection at the 8.0 level. I don't think 9's will ultimately hold the value people are paying for them. PSA 7's and 8's are a much better value as far as I'm concerned. But the best way to get a common card is still the same: buy raw, pay $6.35 (includes shipping both ways), hope for an 8 or 9. If your success ratio is only 67% 8's or better, you've probably got $10-$12 into a card worth at least that much. If you can live with that and your 33% 7's are nice enough, you've got them almost for free!! In the end, I'll have sets that grade out at 7.65 or better, that I paid less than SMR for.
This can't be bad, can it?
There is nothing shameful in a 7.51 set. But personally, I'd not be satisfied. I'd upgrade that '59 set. I'm repeating myself, but for Pete's sake, get the 5's, 6's and qualifiers out of the thing. If you've got plenty of money, keep the 9's in it, but I'd sell the 9's to fund the upgrades.
BTW, I've only said "CheapBay" a couple of times
Gemmint
Hey..Im just starting a 64 Giants set...got any scraps laying around...you know...we could skip the whole "cheapbay" thing...
John
<< <i>Basilone - I was mostly joking around, but high tickets items like this one more often than not don't seem to meet their reserve price. Don't read too much into my comments.
BTW, I've only said "CheapBay" a couple of times
Personally, I like "fleabay" better.
ray,
thankyou, i have just gotten to 40% on my 55 bowman set, in psa 7+. i have 2 comments, one is the psa 7's in my opinion are an excellent value in the 50's issues, secondly there are many beautiful 7's in my set, and i've heard it time and again buy the card not the holder, so why not add nice 7's at a fraction of the cost. i'm proud of my set and am glad you reckognized some of us budget collectors.
bill h
Thanks for the tip on serial numbers that start with "07" and "08". I'll be on the look out for now on.
Ron
My current 69' set has those type of remnants. If I had to sell tomorrow my complete partial set there would be a few mid grade cards mixed in with the mostly really nice stuff.
It all goes back to personal preference. We collect what and the way we like.
If I read into what you say; you sort of feel the same way.
Bill - Really nice 55' Bowman effort (with scans too!...nice touch.) This is exactly what I was talking about. This is a quality set effort in my mind. There are many 55' Bowman PSA 7's available at reasonable prices which are visual delites! The cards are usually very clean with decent centering with only very minor flaws under close inspection. At arms length they are very solid.
Lastly, this is exactly the type post thats gets my juices flowing to start a set anew. 1957 Topps is my favorite 50's issue. I dont have card one but have often thought about jumping in at the PSA 7 entry point. I'll massage that thought some more and dream.
RayB69Topps
Groucho Marx