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1970 bloodbath continues . . .
nnpopp
Posts: 33
Wayne Granger - PSA 9
The Renaud - Klinger fight for 1970 PSA 9s continues. I don't want to criticize anyone's bidding strategies -- after all, I'm a seller occasionally and love to see the bidding wars -- but it seems to me that the final hammer price in this auction would be a lot lower if both sides sniped at the last second.
I'll be very curious to see how the registry takes shape in October; perhaps many leaders (and some dark horses) are holding back registering cards until just before the Registry Awards are given.
The Renaud - Klinger fight for 1970 PSA 9s continues. I don't want to criticize anyone's bidding strategies -- after all, I'm a seller occasionally and love to see the bidding wars -- but it seems to me that the final hammer price in this auction would be a lot lower if both sides sniped at the last second.
I'll be very curious to see how the registry takes shape in October; perhaps many leaders (and some dark horses) are holding back registering cards until just before the Registry Awards are given.
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But, this is the reason that I've stopped buying 1970 PSA 9's on eBay recently. I'll focus my attention on other sets while these two blow through their money. The PSA 8 market is pretty soft for 1970 and once these guys get their fill - the 9's should follow suit.
These are going to be a couple of VERY expensive sets when they're finished.
Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!
lynnfrank@earthlink.net
outerbankyank on eBay!
<< <i>Oh... and this isn't that bad...
The PSA 8 market is pretty soft for 1970 and once these guys get their fill - the 9's should follow suit.
>>
That's the funny thing. The Granger card in an 8 would probably sell for under $10. Is a 9 really worth 10x more?
Realistically - the 9 should be a $50 card or so in a normal, slightly competitve market. But, neither of these two give an inch. Makes for some nice auctions from the dealers standpoint!
Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!
lynnfrank@earthlink.net
outerbankyank on eBay!
I guess I'm an optimist (or a pessimist, from the perspective of dealers). If gaspipe can find 200 1969 Tony Perezs in a random box, my guess is that there could be hordes of PSA 9 quality 1970s that dealers don't send in to be graded because they don't have the time or the will. I won't pay over $25 for a 1970 PSA 9. As a result, I only have 4 or 5, but in the long run, I can't see them being worth more than that. But, as a collector of 1970s, I wish the deep pockets good luck; they will have very nice sets.
Always looking for 53 Topps Baseball and "stuff"
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
Now for more expensive cards ($300 +) I will just use the snipe. But paying $100 compared to $50 to $75, no big deal.
I've overpaid by $100 just to mess with someone before.
Everything is relative I guess. I've seen people at shows haggle over $25 for a card then go loss $1000 at a Casino.
A lot of this is "fun value". To each his own.
<< <i>Now for more expensive cards ($300 +) I will just use the snipe. But paying $100 compared to $50 to $75, no big deal. >>
Please bid on my auctions..they end Wed. night (see link below).
John
We need more vintage FB collectors on this board.
I guess $50-100 is not that big of a deal when talking about vintage football in PSA 10...makes sense now.
Best of Luck on your sets.
John
And not that I would make direct comparisons between 1970 Football and Baseball, but as a point of reference,
The 1970 #73 baseball, pop of 1, went for about $100. Some similiar pop of 1 1970 footballs just went at about $60.
If I were hot on that set I might have gone $100. But I look to average out my costs over the long run.
If I overpay on one by $50 and under pay on one by $20, I'm not doing too bad.
A lot of it is the thrill of the chase. GOOD LUCK ON YOUR AUCTIONS!@
All I really have is a 1980 Butz PSA 9 RC, and a 1979 Riggins PSA 9.
I sold a bunch of Redskins last year - I should pick up some more.
GOOD TO SEE ANOTHER FB COLLECTOR OUT THERE TODAY
<< <i>Wayne Granger - PSA 9
The Renaud - Klinger fight for 1970 PSA 9s continues. I don't want to criticize anyone's bidding strategies -- after all, I'm a seller occasionally and love to see the bidding wars -- but it seems to me that the final hammer price in this auction would be a lot lower if both sides sniped at the last second.
q]
The winner of this one is high bid on several 1971 PSA 9's as well. Ah, to have deep pockets...
Mark
As I have become the subject of a large discussion here, I would like to explain my theory/situation in bidding, so that there is perfect information, and if someone wants to be unethical and use it to shill bid me, more their problem with their soul than my problem for having to pay a few extra or tens of dollars for some cards. Well, here is why I bid the way that I bid:
First, I travel a lot, and I have a very hard time being around my computer to shill bid at the last second for cards, and sometimes to access the internet to bid from the places I am costs more than the money I could save by placing a bid at the last second. For example, it costs me a ridiculous amount to even write this email and post it to the Internet via satellite phone now, but this message string got a bit under my skin so I am answering.
Second, I am not a dealer but a collector. When I began in the media business many years ago a smart but frugal cable television tycoon once told me - "son, if you do not buy it you will not own it" - I have a lot of stress at work and one of the things that makes me happy is to collect these sets in a condition that I like to look at them and show to my friends and family; I am not trying to build up to number one or two on the GPA and then sell the set to make a profit - I respect the people who are trying to do that, I am a capitalist, but it is far from someone to say that my number one priority should be to snipe bid on every card - I have other responsibilities which take me away and often force me to just place large bids before I go away, but I still have a strong desire to complete these sets - yes reasonably, but as reasonably as time allows given my work responsibilities which leads to the income to buy these cards anyways.
Third, I do know that from time to time I get "shill bided" - not sure if that is a real verbal phrase. It is not such a huge annoyance now, but if it keeps going on I will contact a few dealers that I know and ask them to bid on my behalf or I will create other shell personalities - but really, this could get annoying - but I will do it if I believe there is a lot of shill bidding going on.
Fourth, a lot of the 70's cards that I have bought come from reputable dealers such as andiehaley, bbcexchange, rushoeless, discount sportscards and I doubt that they are shill bidding me, particularly given the amount of cards that I have bought from them offline (and have not always registered). I get contacted with fair, if sometimes a little expensive deals from these dealers but I always see a nice selection and I want to say thanks to them (and you can contact some of them if you would like to understand my collecting habits adn the type of person I am).
Fifth, with respect to Kathy and Chris Klinger, I had been contacted by them to "arrange a deal" to bid on just certain cards, something which I morally do not really believe in and something that I never trust the other side to follow through with. If because of my bidding I stopped Chris Klinger from getting cards at $40-$50 per piece, and now he or she is just trying to have revenge, that would just be pathetic - I hope they have better things to do with their life. I suspect instead they paused on pursuing their set, and now have decided to ante up and it has become more expensive for me - fair enough, that is the market and that is what brings supply to the market and keeps it alive.
The only real thing that I have a problem with is shill bidding and the very small possibility of a scorched earth possibility from other bidders - as such I now buy about 50% of my 70 cards off line and 80% of the 71's and 90% of my 53 Bowman's.
Anyways, I hope this answers some of the thoughts outlined below, and I look forward to hearing your responses. As always, thanks for the informative message board.
Frank (FB), who I have conducted a few of what I believe to be very smooth and amicable transactions on the buy side, I would hope that you would leave it for me to decide what is blowing money or not - last I checked you did not have access to my financial records nor did you contact me why I bid before writing that comment.
If I have treated someone with respect, I would expect the same back.
All the best
Chris
Try Auctionstealer.com or another sniping service.....they will save you some money and headaches.
Good Luck with your sets,
John
Thanks
Chris
Groucho Marx
I'd also suggest esnipe.comesnipe.com - I have a similar situation, I don't have time to sit around waiting for items to end, and if people see me bid on an item they'll often shill it. I'd bet I save 20-30% by sniping, and get what I want...
You're right. Its none of my business and should have kept my nose out. Guess it was a slow day on the forum. For that I'm sorry.
The sniping service idea is a good one and in the long run it will save you money.
Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!
lynnfrank@earthlink.net
outerbankyank on eBay!
I started the thread and therefore deserve the credit / blame. I think the points that I, and others, were trying to make were (1) surprise at the prices that PSA 9 1970 cards were selling for on eBay and (2) due to bidding patterns on such cards, belief that some of the cards could be obtained for a lower price.
But I am reminded of many threads where numerous collectors have noted that they are willing to pay higher prices for convenience. I am one of them; I would rather pay a higher price for a high-dollar item through an auction house than hound sellers on eBay. So I appreciate your situation; you will certainly have a very impressive 1970 set when all is said and done.
Good luck on the sets, and don't be a stranger on this board.
-Noah
nnpopp – I thought this started out innocent enough, there have been other threads on bidding wars and high priced cards. Such as the 1970 PSA8 Rudi (that Mr. Renaud nor myself bid on).
What this comes down to is two bidders wanting the same thing and willing to battle for it. Would sniping save any money? Maybe, maybe not. If both of us tried to snipe the same card would the end price have been just as high.? Who knows.
Am I taking out some kind of revenge? no. if you check the record I don’t loose them all (HECK55)
Do I want the same cards that Mr. Renaud wants? Sometimes. We are building the same set, and the 9’s are not all that plentiful.
Am I the only one bidding against Mr. Renaud ? no.
Are there good deals on 1970 PSA 9 cards? Yes. I don’t think either one of us are hoarding the 9’s
In regard to the pricing of the cards. The other dealers I have purchased from have been asking a higher dollar amount for this one year, I can not believe it is the result of our bidding war. Some dealers are asking 100$ for their common 9’s. This is why I bid cards up that high. When I first started on this set I was talked about because I was paying 50$ for PSA8’s and 100$+ for the 9’s, well …. I have not changed my buying habits (much) and we are still talking about the high prices for the 1970 set. It does confuse me sometimes when I see a card that I just won and it sells for half of what I paid, where did the other bidder, that ran me up, go? This gives some credence to waiting for that second or third occurrence of the card before bidding on it. But then you risk never seeing that card come around. If you stay with your original stragity, you will win some and you will lose some. Thats the way it is.
FB- I would love to see the 9’s at 50$, some are there, even lower and some are not. For the record, I have no problem with you letting me know if I am blowing through my money, you would not be the first.
Chris – I had been contacted by them to "arrange a deal" to bid on just certain cards, something which I morally do not really believe in and something that I never trust the other side to follow through with. – I am sorry you feel that way, it was with good intentions. Good luck with your sets
Klinger