What is this coin????

ccrdragon

Here is the link:

Linkage

It is not an indian head penny - indians don't come with stars around the obverse edge.
Is it a civil war token of some kind or a cheap knock off?

Thanks for any ideas!

airplanenut

cheap knock off... most civil war tokens/hard times tokens would say "NOT ONE CENT"

Jeremy

mbbiker

looks like a hard times token to me

stujoe

A little late for a HTT. Most of those were 1830's to early 1840's Might be a CWT or a copy of some kind. I have no real idea and I don't have a CWT book.

Dog97

It's interesting whatever it is.

Pushkin

If its "genuine" its a Civil War token. Usually this type of design has the word "NOT" in small letters above the "ONE CENT". Really hard to tell with this coin. I blew it up an did some color inversions - possibly a very well worn little "NOT" there, but cannot be certain - maybe I'm just seeing "blood on the moon". If its legit, could be worth $10-20. You would need to get information from an expert to see what value, if any, the off-strike adds.

Estimates are that over 50,000,000 civil war tokens were minted, with thousands of varieties. The Red Book has some information on them.

Civil war tokens are an interesting area, both from a numismatic and historical perspective.

Gilbert

Regarding CWT, is your belief that "NOT" pertains to all, or only the ones where a denomination is indicated? I have a lonely CWT, that I believe is genuine and it not only doesn't indicate NOT ONE CENT, but it doesn't have a denomination at all. Neither do the two pictured in the RedBook. BTW, the obverse on the coin in the image looks strikingly similar to the obverse of one of the CWTs pictured in the RedBook, pg 308. I have the other one.

Pushkin

"Many" have "NOT" before (above) the ONE CENT. I never said all do. I'm not an expert on the subject, but with thousands of varieties of CWTs, I think its almost cetain that the NOT is a NAUGHT rather than "not" on many. I would never say NOT to all, or naught.

Just a guideline, NOT a "necessary" and NOT a "but NOT sufficient" condition.

Anyway, no.

dorkkarl

be careful. i looked at his other auctions, 1 has a seated half that i believe is a slug (coutnefeit). that "indian cent" might be a counterfeit of a htt.

K S

lordmarcovan

Not a Hard Times Token- those are earlier, and usually large cent sized. This looks like a Civil War Token or storecard to me. What I would like to know is if it says anything on the headband, like a merchant's name, perhaps. I can't tell from the picture.

My guess? It is a genuine item of the period. The color, surfaces, and engraving are right. It looks familiar. I don't really know exactly what it is, but I seem to recall seeing similar storecards and such in the Rulau book (which is on the shelf above me but I am too lazy to stand up and get it down). If anyone needs me to poke through Rulau's United States Tokens, 1700-1900, I will, though.

I would suspect that the slight O/C strike would not add a very large premium on this- a little, maybe, but not a whole lot. Still, a neat item, and well worth the starting bid, I'd imagine. Though I would not buy it at the current bid of 16 bucks or so, even that price doesn't sound too outrageous.

Gemini

Pushkin is right this is a Civil War token.
This particular style of Indian Patriotic Civil War token comes with 59 obverse die styles and about 30 not one cent reverse styles.
The reverse die is #373 and unlike the other reverse dies does it does not contain the "not" above one cent.

Many of the "not" above cents were scratched off and removed as people tried to pass them as a real cent after the Federal Government declared them illegal to use.

They did fill a coin shortage gap for a few years but due to an incident where a New York issuer failed to redeem a huge amount of his tokens that were accepted in trade the Federal Government had no choice but to step in and put an end to their usage as there was no legal recourse to collect the due funds from the issuer.

The off center strike also does not add any value to these as a great many of Civil War tokens were struck off center and it is fairly normal to see them this way.

They are a very interesting area to study and my favorite.

windwhispersintrees

I believe Miss Struck is the daughter of Mr. & Mrs. Cheap Imitation.

shylock

An image of a really nice 1863 Patriotic Token:

Gemini

Great color Paul and that is a nicely stuck beauty.
Thanks for sharing.

shylock

Wish it was mine Gemini -- it's an image I filed off the internet. I take it they're rare with some red showing like this one?

Conder101

I would say with 99.99% certainty that this is a genuine CWT. I have seen a lot of CWT's and this one does not give me any warning signs of it being a false piece. And I agree with Gemini, slightly off-center CWT's are not that unusual.

Gemini

Nice ones like this are getting somewhat scarcer Paul but the prices are still very affordable when found.
I think nice pieces have a great future and I have seen these really grow in value through the years.

ccrdragon

Thanks for all the answers, folks!

It's now mine and I'll let you guys know what I think when I get it (so maybe I paid a little too much, but it will
still make a nice conversation piece and I can do w/o lunch for a couple of days..... )