iwas at my local fall show this past weekend and the ICG crap abounded

indianabyron

Ok i was at the show and as most of you know i got the exploaded buffalo and the 1901 IHC that is probally cleaned and the 1929DD.

The thing that actually struck me is the amount of icg slabbed coins. And ya i do think they suck wind. Ok here is the thing do they just do bulk grading and hope by doing that they will saturate the market and gain market shair? It would seam that way. There had to be ablut 85% icg slabs and others to include pcgs ngc segs and (others) thats makes me think that they are in fact just trying to flood the market with their junk .


So what do you guys think ami reading to much into this ????


Byron

michael

for me it all depends if the show was in colorado and there were many supporting icg dealers that deal almost excluseively in the stuff then maybe that is a reason or therre are some bigger modern dealers catering to the new collector with sets of modern post 1998 coins and they usually have lots of stuff

for me i really do not care abouyt the holder the coin is in just show me the coin and the price i mean i would buy an acg coin just tell me waht you want for it and save the stories.....lol

i can remember not too long ago when icg started and their first three months most all of their stuff was undergraded!

but i guess from waht i have seen on here times have changed but again buy the coin not the holder!

now i am sure that there are greaqt coins in icg holders also lots! it all depends omn the price! also a pcgs/ngc coin that is a great coin well it is just a bonus in the ;pcgs/ngc holder

i mean pay what you have to for the icg acg coin and if you know waht you are doing crack it out and send to pcgs!

the big IF is if you look at something buy it as you would raw and for me even in a salb any coin to me is raw if the coin is grreat with monster eye appeal and in a holder then so be it! a great starting place with some comfort of a guarantee and a good starting place like i said about i guess the gradinhg services streamlined the coins for us in the holder so we do not havre to take sooooo much time to brouse as before!

a quick glance tells me if i want to look further

but agaimn in the end when all is said and done but the coin not the holder

sincedrely michael

stman

<< <i>

for me i really do not care abouyt the holder the coin is in just show me the coin and the price i mean i would buy an acg coin just tell me waht you want for it and save the stories.....lol
/q]

Michael, I know you are serious but this keeps me laughing!!!!!!


stman

michael

thanks stman you are always forthright and a good sport in your accessments! it is always good to see a post of yours as you always have a good word! and are fair

sincerely michael

wingedliberty

Yes, I agree, ICG garbage is now more abundant at shows. Now more than ever.
Obviously nobody wants it. I have observed and heard directly from dealers , than many
are willing to take a hit, just to get rid of it. ICG is really a horror story, of a grading service with good
intentions that went downhill, primarily because of their horrid grading of moderns


Brian.

gemseeker

This brings about a question of mine. Why is the mint making coins in such a condition that allows grading services to create slabs with these grades? Is it the manufacturing process at fault? Or is it the case of collectors trying to pawn off coins that only appear to be PQ and finding a willing accomplice to their endeavor to hit it big?

Russ

DCAMFranklin will be along shortly to extol the virtues of ICG and regale one and all with his tale of the 10 Franklin halves.

Russ, NCNE

DHeath

Gemseeker,

I love PQ modern proofs, and I buy lots of them. Mostly, I buy raw, but I submit lots of coins to PCGS/NGC/ANACS. I've heard forever about PCGS undergrading and the other services getting it right. IMO, that conversation is mostly hooey. If you read PCGS's grading standard, they apply it pretty well to moderns. They miss sometimes, and I hate their inconsistency (based on my opinion only) with cam designation, but I think that is my biggest beef. Now NGC has recently changed their approach to moderns (again IMO). They are in many cases tougher now on moderns than PCGS. BTW - they are also tough on cams but a little more forgiving with dcam. I haven't used ANACS for moderns, but I had them grade a set of AU/MS Peace dollars for me that they got right (including the 1921 AU58). As for the rest of the market (ICG/PCI/NTC), every modern I've ever bought (50+ coins) or seen in one of their holders has been overgraded. When I buy a coin in one of those holders now, it is a key date for less than $15. I'm sure many have had different experiences, but that's been mine.

gemseeker

Dheath - Because of the varying and fluctuating grading standards, then the Poor to MS-70 scale cannot be considered an absolute benchmark to grade coins. Because each company grades differently, I think each company has to put forth their own grading scale and then have an independent auditor compare all of them and then place them side by side so that you can see how each compares to one another. As personnel and graders change, that scale would then be adjusted as the grading criteria changes. So one company can slide from one end of the spectrum (easy to hard) over time. Since grading is not a science, the artificial scale put forth cannot be a fixed absolute standard.

DHeath

GS,

Boy do I agree with the standard being a moving target from company to company and over a period of time. You know, it almost feels like sometimes some of the lesser services don't take moderns very seriously. It really is impossible to buy an expensive coin blind. I have come to agree with Braddick's assumption more the longer I think about it and compare it to my personal experience. I think the easy coins everyone gets right. I also think if the grader is as demanding of a 1972 Ike in MS66 as he/she would be of a 1934-D Peace dollar in the same grade, they'd all get it right most of the time. I know my expectation of a PR69 coin is to not be able to find a single flaw with my naked eye, so I find it all too easy to pick at mistakes in that grade. Even PCGS isn't immune to that scrutiny, but I find they and NGC are pretty fussy about my submissions in that regard, so I trust their opinion a little more. Again, IMO.