Telecoin bites Dog...

telecoin

Back in early August I offered several nicely toned Morgan dollars for sale on ebay. They got attention on the forum and many thought they were AT. Dog97 stated that in his opinion they were "definitely artificiallly toned and would never be slabbed by PCGS". All sold but one that had only a little toning. One forum member bought 2 of them and because of the opinions on the boards, backed out of buying them after the auction. I even offered to send them without payment and he could pay me after he examined them, or return them at my expence. He declined. The other buyers were delighted with the coins when they left feedback.
I sent the 3 unsold coins to PCGS and today I got the report (invoice #3039749):
PCGS REPORT
Not only did they get slabbed, but one that was refused came back a full grade HIGHER, and one came back 2 full grades higher than I listed them at (I called them MS63...and told the buyer I had been conservative). The unsold one with little toning came back one grade lower than I thought it was. Here are the pictures of them before they were submitted:
1880 S MS64
1883 O MS65
1885 O MS64
I will now accept apologies from all that are willing to swallow their pride. Now you know how I got 7000+ positives without a single neg in over three years of dealing on ebay!
DEMAND QUALITY....DEMAND TELECOIN QUALITY!!!

I mis-read the report and edited this comment to reflect it. I apologize...

Russ

HMM...maybe I should send in the one I bought from you.





Russ, NCNE

Rotts

Congrats on the outcome.You did really excellent.Thanks for posting. Rotts

telecoin

Russ,
Considering the grades that I got...you have a chance at MS65 on yours (I called it MS64).

Russ

I think this one is prettier.



Russ, NCNE

stman

I have to say something here. I don't remember much about this.

But if people are kind enough to take the time to give an opinion you should just take it at that. And not be asking for apologies.

Other people have abused peoples opinions on here and taken them to ebay and said this is what the board says. I'm glad your coins worked out for you and I'm not trying to slam you either.

BTW From what I've seen around here Dog97 has helped many people with his astute knowledge of coins. And calls them as he sees them.

stman

Russ

In case anyone is interested, here is the original thread.



<< <i>The other buyers were delighted with the coins when they left feedback. >>



Also, for the sake of accuracy, I will note that I left no feedback for the one that I won.

Russ, NCNE

Pushkin

Telecon,

From my experience with Dog97:

He's helped a lot of people on this forum.
He can bite.
He ain't always right, but I'd still think hard, darn hard, before betting against him.
His mom didn't raise no dumb puppies.
I'd still respect him - even if we got into a dog and cat fight - no apologies would be necessary.

Congratulations on the positive results.

stman

Just want to add, if I've taken the intent of this thread the wrong way please accept my apologies.

steve

telecoin

Dog should have hedged his opinions a little. He left himself no room for error. His statements were offered as facts. The fact is that his opinion was 100% wrong in this case. But I do thank him, for the coins are worth far more now. I've seen coins like this sell for 5 to 10 times what they sold for originally.
Russ, that toning is awesome. In a PCGS slab it would sell for a fortune.

wondercoin

Telecoin. Great job with your ebay descriptions and your PCGS result.

Let's analyze what is going on here:

1. You were very comfortable offering those coins on ebay as original toned coins based upon your decades of numismatic experience.

2. Forum members must have rendered opinion(s) that some, or all, of the coins were AT or questionablly toned. I assume Dog may have been one of those forum members. From what I have seen around here, Dog is right much more than he is wrong.

3. You were a bit PO'ed that perhaps a deal or two broke apart possibly due to a thread on the forum, so you sent the coins to PCGS to get a "final" verdict, which unanamously was in your favor with the PCGS "grading Gods".

4. You believe that you are owed an apology because your business deal(s) had possibly been "interfered with" by that thread you mentioned.

Now, whether you actually get an apology or not, or whether you even deserve one or not under the circumstances (as no one intentially intended to harm you), I can totally understand your frustration, as you pride yourself on selling top quality coins with a fair return policy. And, in retrospect, perhaps you deserved the "benefit of the doubt" based upon your wonderful track record.

This may be a fair example of "not throwing the baby out with the bath water". While forum members routinely expose questionable ebay sellers with questionable product (and I am glad they do), there are also highy respectable ebay sellers out there as well, of which Telecoin is certainly one of them Wondercoin.

Spooly

Well I have a major problem with Telecoin!!!!

He needs to stock MORE PCGS/NGC Lincoln Wheats...... that I can buy!

Russ

<< <i>Russ, that toning is awesome. In a PCGS slab it would sell for a fortune. >>



Telecoin,

It's awesome, all right. And blatantly artificial. I like it anyway.

Russ, NCNE

Spooly

Stman no worries! Dog can "give" it.... he can also "take" it.

Turn about is fair play! Plus Dog needs a good "kick" for not post that much anymore!

telecoin

I edited the original message because in my haste I got the grades mixed up on the dates. The 83 O that I called MS63+ in the original auction was the one that graded MS65 (even better). I apologize...

Spooly...I let my inventory deplete because of slow sales in summer. I have begun going to shows and submitting again and hope to build up my coin inventory. PCGS isn't helping with their strict grading of late. The 1939 nickels on the list were spectacular and I felt a couple should have been MS67FS (I have graded them in the past). Also I have a second ebay ID that I have been selling non-coin collectibles (mostly WV vintage marbles) and that has taken a lot of my effort lately to get started.

stman

Now just for the record do I agree with dogs opinion all the time? Nope, But I do respect his knowledge for coins. Nobody is right all the time. Send those coins back in and see what happens. I'm sorry but to take an opinion so serious and ask for a public apology in my book is wrong.

stman

kryptonitecomics

Telecoin, Enjoy you successful prognostications and the profits you will reap from the certified coins. Forgot about an apology as it ain't going to happen and as others have said, no one is right all the time no matter how adamant they are in their claims. Good Luck with the liquidation of the rest of the coins.


For the record, after looking at the scans I would have guessed AT as well. Sometimes it is extremely hard to tell on certain coins. Fortunately I don't have the expertise to go out on a limb and state a fact, I just state informed opinions. I will however add you to my list of sellers to watch on Ebay as you feedback certainly speaks volumes about your business practices.

Dog97

Hi Telecoin!
I'm glad your coins turned out to be good. It doesn't hurt my feelings at all they slabbed @ PCGS. Out of the dozen or so toned Morgans that you listed several looked natural but the better ones had ended when I posted my opinion in that thread leaving the lesser attractive coins such as the 99-0 that was the topic of that thread and a few of the others that I said would NG. The reason I say that is because the nicer ones were pretty & had nice even periph tone with the colors merging as they should typical with album tone but the rest of them had weird large blue & red and other unevenly colored areas without rhyme or reason that didn't look like the accepted album or bag tone. Like I said in that post I didn't think they had been to the doctor but had been stored in an album or in a kraft envelope but wouldn't pass muster @ PCGS. I also said <<he's a great seller and a fast shipper.>>

Now that PCGS has declared them legit & slabbed them you should be able to sell them for lots more $$ than before. Who's sposed to offer apologies, me? Hey I'm not sorry about anything I posted. Bad dog no biscuit & I'm swatting myself with a rolled up newspaper but your pictures looked funky. Congrats on them slabbing.

Clankeye

Telecoin bites Dog, Dog responds with grace and congratulations.
Good for Dog. Dog has my respect.

cacheman

Good dog...that's a good boy! Here's a milk Bone.....

Cam40

I,ve known for a real long time now, Dog97 is the real deal.

TheNumish

Congrats on the grades you got. Would love to get my hands on some of those babies. Pleas let us know when you are going to pur them on ebay so I can bid on them.

It's obvious to me from the grades you have a good eye for coins. I know how hard it is to get MS-67 Lincolns and full step Jeffersons. I didn't read the original thread but what do you care what others say about your coins? So this little deal went sideways. That's life and now you've redeemed yourself and you'll probably get more business out of it than if it never happened. Didn't read the original thread so I might be speaking out of line.

In Dog97's defense the scans were not good enough to tell one way or the other. We're all just trying to have fun and learn a little. Nothing more and nothing less. Dog has never claimed to have the ultimate answers but has offered his opinions and I hope he doesn't change what he does. Even though he wasn't right on this one he's usually right on the money.

kranky

I'm glad you did so well with your coins, and obviously you have the respect of some well-known board members.

But I have to say your post strikes me as a bit heavy-handed. To ask for an apology because someone's opinion didn't prove accurate...especially in an area (toning) that nobody can really predict that well....I don't know if that's really fair. I've offered opinions that didn't turn out to be correct, but I don't feel that I need to "swallow my pride". ALL of coin grading is opinions.

Actually, things worked out for the best, right?

IrishMike

kranky, well put. Toning call fool anyone at anytime. Any but the obvious ones that are AT are at best difficult to detect, even by experienced graders.

dorkkarl

buy artful toning because you like it, not becuase pcgs says you should like it.

K S

telecoin

Let's put this one to bed...I thought with the tonge-in-cheek title that it would be taken more lightly. There's no need to rally 'round the Dog... I know he's just trying to help. In the original thread I didn't get defensive...I just put my money where my mouth was. I just wanted final vindication that my coins (whether slabbed or raw) are what I say they are. Perhaps in the future I will get the benifit of doubt when it comes to my descriptions. And I have no doubt that the other dollars were just as original. If there is anyone out there who wants to send one back...please do...I could use the extra money.

Bear

Telecoin - By the authority vested in me by the Furry Creatures Federation AFL/CIO, I hereby
grant you the status of VINDICATED. You may go forth once again into the bright light of day.

As for Dog, God bless you ,we all admire your honesty, integrety and gruf exterior with
warm affection. But what the hell do I know, Im only a little bear. Bear

Russ

<< <i>buy artful toning because you like it, not becuase pcgs says you should like it. >>



Hey Karl,

You must be real proud of me! See above coin.

Russ, NCNE

WWBillman

Everyone knows grading or opinions on a coins attributes from a photo or scan is an educated guess at best. Which in turn means it is impossible for all, some, or any to be correct all the time. If someone posts a picture looking for opinions then there is no room for "I told you so" and would never warrant an apology from anyone who gave an honest opinion.