1927(p) Lincoln Cent (PCGS-MS67RD) (pop 18/0)

wondercoin

I got in a duplicate 1927(p) Lincoln Cent in PCGS-MS67RD. I don't need two. PM me if you are interested in the coin. This coin is actually as nice if not slightly nicer than the coin I have in the bank (this coin has beautiful rim color). The strike is sensational on this piece (I mean sensational) and this coin is perhaps a small mark away from claims to a higher grade. For the most serious of Lincoln collectors. PM me if you are interested and we can discuss the coin on a first come/first served basis. Coin is subject to prior sale. Wondercoin.

RELLA

WC,

Sounds like a killer coin to me...wish I could afford it right now. Where does one even find these kind of coins?

RELLA

wondercoin

RELLA: Quit the day job, work 6-7 days a week, 12-16 hours a day, and I guarantee you that you will find a few coins too That advice is not intended for anyone out there (except you).

Wondercoin.

lazeroo

just pm me the bad news will ya mitch.



lol, rob.

wondercoin

Rob: The coin is on hold for a forum member at the moment. Sorry for the "bad news" But, it might get better. I'll PM you later this weekend.

Wondercoin

dpoole

mrpaseo

I think I can swing a dollar a week for the rest of my natural born days....What do you say....that could end up alot of money......let's see, 52 bucks a year, possibly another 50 years or so....OK, so that won't work...How much will a picture of the coin cost me? Would love to at least see the coin...lol.

Any chance of a nice scan?

if not, cool, I understand,
Ray

lincolnSence

...........

wondercoin

LC: I will generally never discuss the arrangements I make with a buyer on a coin on a thread such as this, unless he wants me to. I also am aware that in this particular case, the buyer DOES NOT WANT THE PRICE REVEALED OR THE SPECIFICS OF THE DEAL. One sinlge PM out of a series of PM's may have accidently appeared on this thread for a short while, but was edited to reflect the desires of the buyer. Having said that, let me generally address your question.

I personally believe the 1927(p) Lincoln is a greatly unappreciated date right now. Consider that a 1928(p) with a pop of nearly 200 MS66RD and 19 or 20 MS67RD can trade in the mid $2000's. The 1927(p) has a significantly lower pop in MS66RD and also less MS67RD's. "Apples to apples", in my opinion, the 1927(p) has proven a much tougher coin in the high grades and deserves to sell at a premium to the 1928(p) (anyone disagree?) A second problem with Lincolns, as I am sure you know, is their strange trading patterns (and usually to the upside, at least in the past couple years). Who doesn't remember the 1932(p) Lincoln in PCGS-MS67RD (most would agree about as tough as a 1927(p) in the high grades) that commanded around $5,000 in a major auction last year? And, I am not knocking the price paid for that coin - I am simply pointing out that pricing Lincolns is an extremely difficult thing to do these days.

If the 1927(p) Lincoln in PCGS-MS67RD trades elsewhere at say $1750, I won't personally raise an eyebrow. If the same 1927(p) Lincoln trades elsewhere at $3,500, I won't personally raise an eyebrow. Now, if one trades at $500 or $5,000, everyone will likely raise an eyebrow. I am sure I am not the only one here that has seen that top grade MS Lincoln cents do not trade like generic Morgan Dollars or Walkers, within a discrete and reasonably small trading range. Whether this is good or bad for collectors, however, is another story. When it has come time to sell, I have personally seen Lincolns collectors do quite well with Lincolns they "stepped up to the plate for" and, to be fair, I have also seen Lincoln collectors do poorly for other pieces they "stepped up for".

Wondercoin.

MastaHanky

If the person who bought this Lincoln sees this message, let me know if it's replacing a PCGS MS66RD, and give me a price if you want to sell it.

lincolnSence

WC - thanks for the clarification. There was no intent to be critical on my post I hope everyone realizes. I hope the purchaser enjoys the coin.

shylock

Mitch - I couldn't agree with you more about top grade Lincolns not trading like Morgans or Walkers. Copper's vulnerability creates larger price swings within each grade. Recently you stated :

"The auction prices realized for Indians vs. Pink Sheet is very interesting indeed. I do not follow the series that closely. Is it the case that those key coins were simply "weak"? Has the grading scale changed over the years such that MS65RD pieces no longer look nice enough to buy at those prices? What caused those Indian prices to be so low? Is the Indian market so thinly traded that basically no one needed the average quality stuff?"

Is it a stretch to think that a small cent minted pre-Lincoln has even greater price fluctuations within each grade? The Hughs 1927 67RD sold for the same "weak" price you mentioned. Was this a reflection on the market or the coin?

RELLA

Shylock,

Trying to equate prices of high grade Lincolns from the Hughes sale in June of 2001 to present selling prices is about as relevant as comparing current Lucent share price to its price in early 2000. One would be hard pressed to obtain a truly PQ MS66RD today at the price his MS67RD fetched. That's not as much the difference in coins as the general condition of the Lincoln market lately. I'm sure that the Hughes '27 would have several interested parties (including dealers) at a $2K price tag today. I also believe that WC's example is vastly superior to the Hughes coin and is worth well more than that.

RELLA

wondercoin

Shylock: Yes, interesting comparision. And Rella hit the nail on the head here as well. From what I recall of the Hughes sale, that was the very bottom of the Lincoln market in recent times. Remember, just 90 days beforehand, you had the world record prices of the Central States auction (ex: the 1932 I mentioned earlier). Indeed, several of the pieces in the Hughes set had pedigree to that Central States auction (ex: 1914(s)). When Hughes decided to quit his collection unexpectedly, the Lincoln market took an immediate pause. Shylock your research can quickly show what happened to coins like the 1914(s) Lincoln in PCGS-MS65 in just a 90 days period between the Central States auction and the Hughes sale (from memory - roughly $13,000 down to $4,000!!) The Lincoln market has rebounded (nearly in a straight line up) ever since that sale best I can see.

So, you have shown us an example of another lucky buyer from the Hughes sale (under $800 for a 1927 in PCGS-MS67RD).

Wondercoin

shylock

I remember those 2001 Central States Lincolns very well, and the crazy dropoff many took in just 2 months at Long Beach. I posted at the time about the 24-D in 65RD that went from 14K to 6K, as well as a few less dramatic examples. I've always been curous about that and can only conclude at least two bidders were hot and heavy to complete sets at Central States, causing a huge spike in the prices. What baffled me was seeing so many of them back up for consignment almost the next day. What a difference waiting 2 months made for the underbidder(s).

Unlike stocks, it sometimes only requires two determined collectors pitted against each other to create a wild "market" in a particular series. Especially in the more competitive Registry sets like Lincolns. And unless other collectors know the particulars of what's going on they may get carried along for the ride instead of waiting it out until the dust clears.

Getting back to your thoughts about the Indian cent market -- that sort of scenario doesn't seem to happen as often there. Quality material is just plain tough to find and once sold usually stays sold, leaving the mediocre and the overgraded to recycle from auction to auction at low prices. I know this well because I use to own many of them, and you're right about there being less of a market for these. That may cause a perception of a "thinly traded market", but in reality it's the coins that are thin. When the nice material does appear, like the last Long Beach or the 64w/L proof that was the first small cent to break the 100K barrier, you realize how strong the IH market is. Maybe not as deep (or volatile) as the Lincoln market and with less newcomers (and goers), but very solid and with great longevity.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

There is a reason for everything......One has to do their research and find out why !!!!

The 2001 Central States Auction brought out at least two collectors bidding on the internet....one of whom was Michael Hughues
The additional floor bidders caused the Lincoln Cent market to reach levels NEVER BEFORE IMAGINED.Since that auction Lincoln cents have proven to be one of the best values in Numismatics today.

The same Numismatic fever occured at the Superior Auction of the Gougleman collection of Indian cents.The quality of the Indian cents (mostly from the Alan Epstein collection) were so wonderful that stratospheric prices were the norm.

I attended the sale of the Michael Hughues collection.The 1927 inthe collection was an inferior coin for the grade.I know the dealer that bought the coinand they really bought the holder

Wondercoin is right in his assumption in that the only time one should blink is when a 1927 sells for more than $5,000 or less than $500.

Stewart

merz2

STEWART
I believe the Lincoln Cents will continue to rise in value,at least until 2009.IMHO

AimMan

Stewart is right. It was Mike Hughes bidding up the prices at Central States in 2001.

Then Stewart and I both were at the floor auction in Long Beach in April. We both bought coins on which Mike lost money. I bought eleven of his coins in Long Beach - - all which I have researched and found that he lost money.

David Green