1971 #100 Rose PSA 9 reslabed to a 10?
kmas5
Posts: 31
Taking my daily look at the ’71 pop report and noticed the Rose 9 is no longer exists while the 10 column shows a pop of one. Fair assumption that the 9 was bumped up a grade? Stories had the 9 exchanging hands for close to $15k. Any thought what it’s worth as a 10? In any event, it’s going to be interesting to see if it shows up for sell or bid.
0
Comments
Mike
I say this with wishful thinking as I have a couple of 71 Rose's at PSA right now and maybe one of mine....................
Anyway, he said he had already sold it, and also told me that he was surprised it wasn't a 10. It looks like it might be now - in any case, it must be an absolutely stunning card ...
Robert
Paul, With all sincerity, I hope I am backwards on this and the 10 is yours.
Reality dictates otherwise......but thanks for the positive vibes!
Is there really a difference between a pure PSA 9 and 10 anyway?
With vintage cards -- there is usually a difference between a 9 and a 10. Mainly centering and corners -- as surface can still show some spots, and edges can still have a nick or two (factory imperfections, though....). That being said, I have only seen one or two PSA 10's from 1971 -- and from the 9's I have seen, I can't believe there would be much of a difference but for centering.
Also -- remember that Bill Goodwin bought the PSA 9 for $15,000. If you consider what a multiple that was over the PSA 8 going price -- it is hard to think that a PSA 10 would sell for significantly more. Certainly not multiples of the $15,000 figure. Even the Pete Rose rookie in PSA 10 is probably only worth in the $75 - $100k range, and that is only to a certain few players. Plus, that PSA 10 is an older grade..
I digress...
MS
I see your point. I am looking for a solid 1971 PSA 8, and they are going for double SMR .... sometimes more. I called one dealer to look for them several weeks ago, as well as the rookie. He was very cordial and informed me he had a rookie PSA 10 at one time - sold it to a well known major leaguer who is a HUGE collector (and pretty good ball player!) I thought that was great, I know I would be a colllector if I was a player, and would have a lot more cards!
gemint - I hope that is the case, because it does not seem right
I do recall a wonderfully centered PSA 9 Mickey Mantle WL that Mastro auctions sold about 2-3 years ago that was quite impressive. Furthermore, they went on to point out that the card had back corner wear (they even emphasized, "who looks at the back anyways?"). This weakness of the card was more than compensated for by its strengths in centering. However, the fact that "politics" are involved in card grading has heightened my concern regarding objectivity. As a result, it is always prudent to carefully inspect expensive cards with your own eyes and in "your" hands. I, like many veteran collectors, have made mistakes in putting too much importance in "slabbed grades" as opposed to my own eyeballs!
Ron
nuff said on that -
john
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
I have an example for you - at this year's National, I purchased a 1975T Aaron (#660) in PSA8 for $100. I thought it was very nice and didn't think any more about it. I put in my box with the rest of my items and continued shopping. When I got home that night, I discovered that the holder had become horribly scratched. The more I looked at the card, the more I was impressed with it. In my mind, it had all the qualities of a 9 - razor corners with virtually no chipping, excellent centering, great focus, and eye appeal that was off the chart. This card has a tendency to be dark and the color tones tend to be very bland. Not this one. The only flaw I could see was some very faint snow in the dark background. I showed it to several trusted friends who are familiar with the 75T issue and nearly all felt it had an even or better shot at a 9. Since I had to have it reholdered regardless, I figured I'd have it reviewed. Lo and behold it was upgraded to a 9.
Now. . .the person to whom I traded the card was standing right next to me at the very moment I orignally purchased the card as an 8. He had seen the card several times and examined it closely even before I submitted it for review. He had absolutely no problem with the fact that the card was a 9 and his trade offer reflected as much.
I'll certainly admit that it's unusual that the new owner of the newly-created 9 has such an initmate knowledge of the card's history. But. . .I think if you say that a card should never be bumped, by the same rationale you have to say PSA should never buy back an overgraded card. I'll be the first to say that a "bump" should definitely not be done arbitrarily or out-of-hand. And I think that a bump from a 9 to a 10 should be more heavily scrutinized than one from an 8 to a 9, but to say it should never happen isn't realistic.
Mike
<< <i>razor corners with virtually no chipping, excellent centering, great focus, and eye appeal that was off the chart. This card has a tendency to be dark and the color tones tend to be very bland. Not this one. The only flaw I could see was some very faint snow in the dark background. >>
mike,
3 graders graded the card and then was reviewed by another so that would be 4 graders looked at it so that limits the chance for human error.
when your card is reviewed in person how many graders review it?what would have you done if it came back a 7 or an 8 pd?
i will say it again psa should not bump grades if you thought it was that nice you could have spent an extra buc and sent it in yourself.
why would psa offer this service"sorry john collector 4 graders thought it was an 8 in 1997 but we reviewed it and we have come to the conclusion that they were blind" can i get my 12 bucs back then?"sorry we can't do that but your newly graded card will be in superiors auction next month so if you want to bid feel free"
sorry we differ on this
john
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
Yep. . .we definitely differ on this.
Mike
Nick
[darn typo]
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One theoretical situation where undergrades could be assigned would be if a grader is getting a lot of buy backs for overgrading. To ensure he/she limits the buybacks of cards they graded, they go way conservative. Having the option to have your cards reviewed is important.
Now. . .I certainly don't think it should be easy to get a card bumped. In fact, the card should be more heavily scrutinized than if it were just included in a raw submission - for the very fact that jackstraw mentioned. But I think to eliminate review of undergraded cards altogether makes no sense.
Mike
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<< <i>if a collector feels a card is overgraded >>
do you think the 71 rose was bought by a collector ? do you think he cracked it out and sent it in? what if psa said after further review it is recolored and we will pay you smr which is a far cry from 15,000!if psa does review correctly that person would be out 15,000 because the grade is only guaranted in the holder, enjoy your recolored 71 rose!
this is just my opinon and i don't believe that you should offer this service, if 2 out of 3 thinks it's and 8 then that should be the end of story. if you think otherwise then stop crying, crack it out, roll the dice and send it in.
john
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
Mike
psa offers an unbiased third party grading service, if the party in question thinks he got a raw deal on their opinon then he should take his business elsewhere or 2 resubmit the card>
psa is not and has never been an investment firm they are a third party that offers an opinon on sports cards.
john
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
When a card is sent in for review, I don't believe that the graders even know what the original grade of the card was or that it even came in on review. The card goes through the grading process as any other card. The graders give there unbiased grade of the card a usual. If they give it the same grade as it was originally, then the grade is kept the same, if the graders give it a higher grade then the original grade, then the grade is "bumped up", and if the graders give it a lower grade or determine that it is doctored in some way, then PSA will buy the card back. The reason for submitting a card for review in the PSA holder is so that you are protected by the PSA grading guarantee if they determine something major wrong with the card.
I'm not saying it should be easy to get a card upgraded. In fact, I think it should be even tougher because of the things you mention. It should take an extremely unique card and/or circumstances. But making it impossible for PSA to correct any problems that do happen isn't the solution.
That said, most people who try to get a card bumped up do exactly what you suggested. They crack it and resubmit it. The main problem I have with this is that it can totally blow apart the population for a given card. Say you have a card in PSA8 and it's a 1/1. You resubmit it 3 times before finally getting it back as a PSA9. In this case, the pop report would then show four PSA8s and 1 PSA9 - when in fact the only card in the field is the one PSA9. I would argue that this does more damage to the market value of the card than a formal review - which carries over the cert# and ensures the population is adjusted correctly.
Mike
As if anyone is going to break out a 1/1 in hopes of a higher grade.
The day that I do that, have me committed to the funny farm.
Mike
<< <i>Mike
As if anyone is going to break out a 1/1 in hopes of a higher grade.
The day that I do that, have me committed to the funny farm. >>
I agree that is what i was thinking... Anyone that does that is crazy.. And if they do is when people start thinking something is going on..
a definite break out, and a bargain at 4650....do you think it was cut from a sheet? 71 rose bgs 9
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
The Rose pop in 9 now stands at zero with the 10's now standing at one.
As for the owner ??????????????
As for the 1971 Rose BVG 9 example -- two things: A) Every BVG-graded card that I believe to be trimmed from a sheet has the "surface" subgrade as the lowest of all four.
MS
Don't be greedy! If anyone actually places such a foolish bet with you, I'll be more than happy to take some of the action
This is my game. Plus, my dancing cow can kick the socks off of your dancing hot dog!
good point!
It's just that I like betting on a one horse race.