Braddick style question regarding NGC with ACG thrown in!

JJacks

There have been numerous threads floating around about who is better NGC or PCGS, right?

Here are some answers that have been given about why people "like" NGC more.

1. Customer Service - This seems to be a big one. NGC must be doing pretty good.
2. Other CLCT companies (DH) selling PCGS graded coins. Conflict of issue category.
3. NCG is now offering NCG or will help a customer who sends in coins that need a dip or whatever.
4. NGC holders - Maybe better then PCGSs?
5. NGC hasn't slabbed 9/11 coins.
6. NGC has more attributes, die varieties, etc.
7. NGC doesn't fingerprint coins (ever!) as PCGS has apparently done.
8. NGC grading is consistant - Hear this one alot.
9. PCGS doesn't make all their rules clear or easy (must send seperate invoice for each type, etc.)
10. NGC people show up on message boards (this kind of goes with customer service)

Ok, enough of this, but you get my point. I think we can all agree the stuff above is at least some of why NGC people claim to like NGC. One more thing we should all agree on before seeing my question is that ACG is generally the most disliked and even hated grading service around because they are thought to overgrade most coins at least a point or 2, many coins 4-5 points or maybe even more, right? That is why ACG is so unpopular around here.

Here is the question then:

What if ACG graded as they do today, but also did all of what NGC does as far as those 10 reasons I posted? Would the pro-NGC people here like ACG then? (I am not for a second trying to compare NGC to ACG today). What if ACG's customer service was spectacular, they had people on message boards just waiting for questions, their ethics (other then maybe the grades) were top notch in every way, they fully attributed coins to the level of NGC or ANACS, they made their submission forms and rules easy to follow, they never fingerprinted a slab, or were super quick and helpful to make up for it, they had an 800 number with many customer service folks waiting, etc. Remember though that they still grade as they currently do? Remember that Morgan $s that should be MS63 are being called 65 or even 66? Would this be a good company then? What if their grading was slightly better, so that MS63s were being called 64s or maybe sometimes 65s?

My point is very simple. However hard to get there the most important thing a grading company can do is protect the public with a properly graded slab and back up that grade (not for the dealer as someone suggested earlier, but for the buyer of the coin). If the grade on the holder is often even just a point over, that ruins all of the other reasons posted above. Now, I don't know if NGC overgrades many coins, or what percent exactly, but I think PCGS overgrades less coins then anyone else, and that makes them my favorites on that fact alone!

Once again, just my opinion, but I will get my flame suit on, log off for a while, and see what responses appear!

JJacks

braddick

I guess what it boils down to is how well a Grading Service Grades your coins.
All else, as important as it is, is secondary.

It's also about adjusting your expectations. If you fall in line with the Standards NGC has set- you'll be happy with the grades you receive back from them.
I have changed my criteria and am not nearly as critical as I used to be. As I've done so NGC coins look better and better to me.

Android

<< <i>What if ACG graded as they do today, but also did all of what NGC does as far as those 10 reasons I posted?
Would the pro-NGC people here like ACG then? >>



First of all, I want to thank you for a well presented and thought provoking post. In answer to your question, I would have to say absolutely not. In my mind, there is no amount of customer service that can cover up, for any length of time, a shoddy, misrepresented, legally questionable product, promoted and sold by a man or group of people whose lack of ethical standards are so widely discussed and in some cases, documented.



<< <i> What if their grading was slightly better, so that MS63s were being called 64s or maybe sometimes 65s? >>



A few cliche's come to mind - Trust is earned not given - The proof is in the pudding (no pun intended). But what comes to mind the most is that "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear". ACG's reputation is so badly damaged with knowing collectors ( and more newbies who are learning through forums like these) that I doubt they will ever be taken seriously under any circumstances, particularly under their current management.



<< <i>However hard to get there the most important thing a grading company can do is protect the public with a properly graded slab and back up that grade. >>



I'm hoping you are meaning a "properly graded coin" instead of a "properly graded slab". I agree with your assertion. I would also like to assert that PCGS, with it's debatably poor customer service, wouldn't stand a chance in you-know-where of staying in business if they couldn't grade coins. Or more importantly for some, didn't command higher prices.



<< <i>If the grade on the holder is often even just a point over, that ruins all of the other reasons posted above. Now, I don't know if NGC overgrades many coins, or what percent exactly, but I think PCGS overgrades less coins then anyone else, and that makes them my favorites on that fact alone! >>



I appreciate the sentiment, but I think you are still missing the point. Overgraded, undergraded, correctly graded, or whatever graded, those judgements are made by you when you look at any coin. You may agree or disagree with the stated grade on any coin, hopefully based on your knowledge concerning the coin you are observing. That is your choice, your standards, your perception, and if PCGS graded coins trip your trigger more than coins graded by other reputable services, then more power to you!

I will re-iterate what I mentioned in another post which I believe applies here as well. The top two grading companies are both well respected and I believe are essentially the same. In my business dealings with two companies that provide the same product, and the same service, with essentially the same results, I will go with the company that offers superior customer service every time!

Andy

JJacks

Come on - no more responses then that?!?!?!?!?

I just wanted to add that customer service, nice holder, not slabbing 9/11 coins, no confict of intestes, etc is something that just about any grading company could do if they really wanted to, but it takes a special company to grade coins properly and stand behind them. I think PCGS is the best here, with NGC maybe second.

For me, 95% or more of the company is the final product - is the grade on the slab correct and if anything conservative, and all of the rest of the other stuff is maybe 5%.

Just my opinion again!



JJacks

RNCHSN

Here is my opinion;

NO AMOUNT OF SPECTACULAR CUSTOMER SERVICE CAN COVER UP SHODDY WORKMANSHIP!!!!!!!!!

I used to be a mechanic........If our shop did the job fast, quick, cheap, and with a smile on our faces, but the problem wasn't fixed. Even though you bring the car back 6x for free follow-up repairs to almost fix a problem that wasn't solved (and should have been if I'done it right) the first time, and I still smile and say thanks very much, you're still going to take it to the next guy to get it done right, even if it costs more, AND they laugh at you and call you an idiot for bringing it to me in the first place!

(PS that NEVER happened)

NEXT EXAMPLE!!

I am a RN..........If you come to my hospital, and the care is terrible (IT' NOT), and you die from malpractice on our part (YOU WON'T), are you and you're family going to be satisfied because our customer service reps. are the best A$$ kissers around?! (They're not!)

I DIDN'T THINK SO!!!


It all comes down to opinions in this. No matter who grades the coin, I'm not paying more than I feel it's worth based on the the merits of the COIN! I'm honestly not sure either service is better. I buy coins in both holders, but only if I like the coins.

Android

<< <i>but it takes a special company to grade coins properly and stand behind them. >>



NGC GUARANTEE

The grading of coins is subjective and solely reflects the opinions of the NGC graders. NGC guarantees that all coins submitted to it through any tier shall be examined by a minimum of three NGC grading experts in accordance with NGC grading procedures. In the event that any owner or subsequent purchaser of an NGC coin believes that a coin has been over-graded by NGC with respect to such procedures, such person may submit the coin to NGC through its "Appearance Review" service for a review of the assigned grade. If the grade determined under such review in NGC’s sole opinion is ultimately lower than that originally assigned to the coin, NGC shall, at NGC’s option, either exchange the coin in question with an equivalent coin at the earlier higher grade or pay the difference between the current fair market value of the coin at the newly established grade and the current fair market value of the grade originally assigned to such coin. Due to the volatile nature of the coin market and Internet auctions/sales, the selling prices in these auctions/sales do not necessarily represent the current fair market value of any particular coin. NGC will determine the current fair market value of a coin based upon what NGC believes, in its sole opinion, to be reliable current market information. NGC’s subjective determination of fair market value shall be binding on all parties. Removal of a coin from its NGC holder, or tampering with the holder, nullifies this Guarantee. If requested, NGC will remedy any clerical error with respect to the description or grade of a coin on its label, free of charge.

I believe that PCGS's guarantee is roughly equivilent. The one difference is that NGC won't extend their guarantee to copper coins as they can still oxidize inside the holder.



<< <i>For me, 95% or more of the company is the final product - is the grade on the slab correct and if anything conservative, and all of the rest of the other stuff is maybe 5%. >>



The final product is the most important. The final product with ACG is generally unspeakable. The final product with PCGS and NGC is so similar as to be statistically irrelevent. I have an equal (50/50) chance of agreeing or disagreeing with the grades either NGC or PCGS gives my coins. So, for me, with two companies that are virtually tied in the quality of product they provide, the one who provides superior customer service will get my business.



<< <i>Just my opinion again! >>



Mine too. I think I'm having deja vu!

Cheers,

Andy