IMHO, When using a service such as these, you woulndnt want the one that everyone is happy with and has no complaints! Why? No resale value! You will soon learn why everyone had no complaints, all their coins were overgraded!
Since Wallstreetman generally speaks well of PCGS, that means then, by extension, that he feels that his PCGS slabs are generally overgraded.
I was watching the Discovery Channel recently. It was the episode about what killed the Mega-beasts... Anyway, there was this extinct species of flightless birds that were only on New Zealand. They're quite similar to gigantic ostriches.
As soon as the more intelligent humans arrived, a couple of hundred years ago, we quickly killed off that species. Those species couldn't defend themselves because they were too stupid and unadaptable.
Mark, I like your post (even though I'm sure it understated your opinion) regarding whose plastic to choose. Maybe I'm a little simple, but it seems to me it really doesn't matter whose plastic a coin is holdered in if I'm a buyer and I like the piece. I'm sure there are many possible variations on the PCGS/NGC/Raw discussion, but in the end, all of these conversations seem to be about the holder, and not the coin. What are the chances PCGS undergraded/overgraded at least a few coins. How about NGC, or for that matter are there any PQ coins in ANACS or other holders? If so, assuming a holder bias immediately removes many collectible coins from your list of collectible candidates. I just don't understand how it is possible to buy sight-unseen at the price of the holder grade and expect a premium coin anyway unless the seller is an amateur. Not all MS63's look the same, even in the same companies holder. I really appreciate the grading services, and even the competetion among them as I believe they are good for the hobby, but they really are incidental to collecting coins. If you can examine the coin first-hand and can even reasonably grade yourself, who really cares if a coin is undergraded or overgraded by company x or company y. I trust the third-party graders to authenticate/encapsulate, and make marketable my coins (a great service for what we pay), but I'll still want a look when I'm spending my money. IMHO
PS - I'm hoping to go to the ANA grading seminar in Charlotte this coming March, and I hope to meet some of you there!
Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
i get the impression from some of the posting that a correct grade isn't what most are after, but instead the highest grade from a reputable service(NGC or PCGS)regardless of whether they agree with it or not.
i find it interesting that so much is made of undergraded coins and rarely is it mentioned when the opposite takes place. the typical example would be that such and such a coin "came back MS66 and i thought it graded as MS65----Yahoo!!!" nothing said about sending it back or that they got this one right. but if the opposite happens and it "came back MS65 and i thought it graded MS66----they are so inconsistent and i think i'll start a thread and blah blah blah" and i just don't understand that mentality.
if everything was added up, all the grades received that were what we expected, better than expected and less than expected i think the picture many have of PCGS and NGC would be different. the problem is that only half of the story is ever told. it's kinda like people who buy lottery tickets. they always tell about the winning but the losing is kinda glossed over. i don't think you can have a very objective picture drawn with only half the information.
Keets has hit the nail on the head. Its what the crack out game is all about. The motivation in the end is money. Its worth more in a higher grade holder, isn't it? And that way another "just made it" coin hits the market. And if PCGS or NGC says so than it must be so, I haven't misrepresented anything when I list it on ebay and ask a price commensurate with the grade on the holder.
I think it odd that one service is better than the other based on the grade awarded to a coin. Let's say two identical (if it is possible) coins are sent to different services. One service overgrades and the other service undergrades. The value of the coins should be the same no matter what it says on the holder. I haven't sent any coins in to either service, so I don't know about their customer service, but I can see how customer service will have an affect. Personally, I prefer PCGS, I like their PR69 coins. You can't find any defects on many, on others the defects are very hard to find. Could these coins end up in PR70 from NGC? I see PR70 from NGC selling for less money than the PR70 PCGS. Shouldn't a 70 be a flawless coin no matter which company put it in a holder? I PCGS started putting coins with minor flaws into PR70 holders, where whould their credibility go? For me I think that PCGS is grading closer to the truth, and the other services may be selling the consumer short.
What would the 1933 St. G grade in another companies holder. I saw many cries of collectors yelling it was overgraded. Was it?
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
fcloud here is a great opportunity for you, if you want to put your money where your mouth is. Buy all the proof SAE's you can find in PCGS slabs 69 Dcams and send them to NCG for encapsulation. I can tell you from the experience of selling Proof 70 DCams in NGC holders that they sell for many multiples of what PCGS 69's do. So if you really believe the PCGS 69's are equivalent of the NGC 70's you can make a small fortune. Funny I mentioned this 5 times now and no one has taken me up on it. It's easy to say anything about grades on here but no one has taken the faith they have in their opinion and put it to the test. I wonder why?
If you are lucky enough to find a PCGS undergrade for a small premium, by all means buy it! If you find an NGC solid for the grade coin at a discount, buy it! Both represent value. But please examine the coin before you decide if you got value, not after you've already made up your mind!
You think you're distraught? Look how bad my poor Mariners are choking!
Personally, I believe that on average PCGS does grade tighter. But that's on average! The only way to know which side of the line it's on is to look at the coin. Same with any holder. To make statements like "only one company can grade properly" or "all NGC coins are overgraded" is to profess nonsense. (no- not you, but some others do!)
I'm not saying PCGS undergrades, overgrades, or properly grades. Who in the world is to say what MS65 represents anyhow?
That is the truest statement I've seen on this forum for an awful long time!
Seems to me like this "grading" discussion/argument will go on into INFINITY....what a coool concept! Imagine infinity - and then imagine what is beyond....farther than the human mind can concieve.....there
and only there
will you find "coin graders" who REALLY know.
Seems to me that if it's really nice and unworn and undamaged, it's worth more. pretty simple. Maybe I am reading too much into these discussions on this bulletin board.
Wow coolcoinz thats some heavy stuff your smoking. Infinity.....thats were the answer lies......................................................................
Comments
Since Wallstreetman generally speaks well of PCGS, that means then, by extension, that he feels that his PCGS slabs are generally overgraded.
I was watching the Discovery Channel recently. It was the episode about what killed the Mega-beasts... Anyway, there was this extinct species of flightless birds that were only on New Zealand. They're quite similar to gigantic ostriches.
As soon as the more intelligent humans arrived, a couple of hundred years ago, we quickly killed off that species. Those species couldn't defend themselves because they were too stupid and unadaptable.
There's a lesson to be learned here, I think...
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
TR
PS - I'm hoping to go to the ANA grading seminar in Charlotte this coming March, and I hope to meet some of you there!
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
i get the impression from some of the posting that a correct grade isn't what most are after, but instead the highest grade from a reputable service(NGC or PCGS)regardless of whether they agree with it or not.
i find it interesting that so much is made of undergraded coins and rarely is it mentioned when the opposite takes place. the typical example would be that such and such a coin "came back MS66 and i thought it graded as MS65----Yahoo!!!" nothing said about sending it back or that they got this one right. but if the opposite happens and it "came back MS65 and i thought it graded MS66----they are so inconsistent and i think i'll start a thread and blah blah blah" and i just don't understand that mentality.
if everything was added up, all the grades received that were what we expected, better than expected and less than expected i think the picture many have of PCGS and NGC would be different. the problem is that only half of the story is ever told. it's kinda like people who buy lottery tickets. they always tell about the winning but the losing is kinda glossed over. i don't think you can have a very objective picture drawn with only half the information.
al h.
I think you might get yourself into trouble if you persist in being so rational and sensible!
What would the 1933 St. G grade in another companies holder. I saw many cries of collectors yelling it was overgraded. Was it?
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Folks will be debating the same issues over and over again. No way any of us can impress our views on others, even if we are correct.
Something to keep in mind: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
Do me a favor: explain to me how coin collectors can value the plastic supreme over the coin itself?!?
BTW, do you like my signature?
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
You think you're distraught? Look how bad my poor Mariners are choking!
Personally, I believe that on average PCGS does grade tighter. But that's on average! The only way to know which side of the line it's on is to look at the coin. Same with any holder. To make statements like "only one company can grade properly" or "all NGC coins are overgraded" is to profess nonsense. (no- not you, but some others do!)
I'm not saying PCGS undergrades, overgrades, or properly grades. Who in the world is to say what MS65 represents anyhow?
That is the truest statement I've seen on this forum for an awful long time!
My Rangers sweep your Mariners for the first time in over a decade, and they do it in a year that we already wrote off. You think you're in pain.
and only there
will you find "coin graders" who REALLY know.
Seems to me that if it's really nice and unworn and undamaged, it's worth more. pretty simple. Maybe I am reading too much into these discussions on this bulletin board.