Dealers----Coin Shows----Mint/Proof Sets
keets
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Is it just me or has anyone else ever had dealers get aggravated when they look at mint/proof sets without buying something?
What strikes me as rather ridiculous about my experiences is that I'll usually ask if I can flip through the sets first. And why would they get upset about it? Would you consider buying a coin, any coin, without looking at it? With so many really DOG sets at every show i attend it seems that a dealer would either ask a premium if he has nice sets or offer a discount if all he has are DOGS----or do the logical thing and allow customers to look at the sets and make an informed choice.
Of course there is the possibility that I'm missing some kind of quasi-dealer-collector unspoken BOURSE ETIQUETTE here and need to be corrected!!
Have any others had similar run-in's at shows?
al h.
What strikes me as rather ridiculous about my experiences is that I'll usually ask if I can flip through the sets first. And why would they get upset about it? Would you consider buying a coin, any coin, without looking at it? With so many really DOG sets at every show i attend it seems that a dealer would either ask a premium if he has nice sets or offer a discount if all he has are DOGS----or do the logical thing and allow customers to look at the sets and make an informed choice.
Of course there is the possibility that I'm missing some kind of quasi-dealer-collector unspoken BOURSE ETIQUETTE here and need to be corrected!!
Have any others had similar run-in's at shows?al h.
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Comments
Michael
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MW Fattorosi Collection
Eisenhower Proofs
SBA Proofs
Sac Proofs
Proof sets are mainly low profit items. They are also bulky and heavy to take to the shows. As such, many don't want to handle them or spend time showing them all. The sets also get 'shop worn' every time they are brought out to be opened and closed.
Some dealers want to concentrate on higher profit items and are only willing to hand you one or two sets at say ask. If you turn them down, he might not offer you more since he may have the impression that you only want to cherry pick his sets and take too much time in doing so.
I've seen a collector ask for a different set requesting one with a 'clean box'. This was met with a reply that the dealer didn't have any sets that would suite the collector. End of discussion.
Others know they can wholesale everything out and not have to invest any time in them.
A dealer I know has a tub of sets on his table with prices posted. He allows you to look at them all. His only requirement is to put them back in order.
Different agenda for different dealers.
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B.
A Tax is a fine for doing good.
TBT
you raise an interesting point about wholesaling. i have a humorous picture in my head of sets going 'round and 'round from dealer-to-dealer at "5 back of bid" and never being looked at by any real buyers!!!
i've actually had sets jerked outa my hand while being told i was done!! i have a decent memory and that particular dealer gets passed over when i see him. most of the dealers i encounter have sets in boxes on the table and the only time that i take up is when i ask to look and when i say thanks or how much. that and the occasional glance they may give me. funny, the rudest dealers seem to be the ones with nobody at their table, so maybe that's the answer to my question.
al h.
There is a guy who does the Texas shows called Steve Sanders and he lets people go through his sets all the time. There is one guy that spends the whole day looking for varieties and probably spends less than $100. Steve is really nice about it considering the guy hogs the table and probably costs him business by getting in the way of others wanting to look.
Dealers forget that when collectors buy something it's for keeps. They aren't buying it and then selling it off. It's important to get something you are happy with. Like others have said if the dealer gets huffy and puffy just move on. There are plenty of other proof sets to look at.
the sets i'm looking for are for a date run i'm putting together that i have in one of the eagle albums. i always try to be pleasant and courteous, partly because it's just my nature and partly because i can understand the way it gets at shows sometimes. i would imagine there have been times when it looked like i was cherry picking and some times when i have been, but mostly i'm looking for decent sets for the collection. i still need about 5 years of mint sets and some of the prestige and silver proof sets.
al h.
I have received the same treatment from almost every dealer with whom I HAVEN'T had a business relationship with.
I guess the underlying mentality is that everyone should know the sets have already been "cherried" so take the first one you see and disappear. (Maybe not that bluntly, but ....)
Unless I am invited to look through them I don't even bother; well actually, when I see pre-1964 sets I can't help from being interested, and depending on how the initial intro goes, I decide if I want to ask to go throught the sets or not. More often than not, I only bother with proof/mint sets when I can't find anything else to buy.
I could be wrong on this issue, but, it really irritates me to find a set and then have the dealer/seller, check it out, and then increase his price because there is a nice coin in it, or actually, because the set looks like its supposed to. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind paying for a PQ set, but I do mind when the dealer/seller assesses the price by assuming that I can make XX dollars off this coin and XX dollars off that coin.
It's a pathetic ego trip that the dealer doesn't want to be outdone by a customer. It would be one thing if you were costing other sales, but many times they won't allow you look thru stuff at their shop when no one else in in there. Jerks!
One dealer I used to go to has boxes of coins of the same date. I was looking thru them (after piling up a few hunderd dollar stack of coins I was going to take) and the dealer asks in an extremely rude tone if I plan on looking thru the coins or am I going to pick one and buy. This is after I had a large stack in front of me. I told him I was looking for a nice coin and he replies that the grades are on the flip and I didn't need to look at the coins. When I asked if he would take my word on the grade if I was selling the coin to him he asked me to leave.
I've encountered him many times. He is the biggest assh*le in the business. His business practices make Joel Rettew look like a saint.
He is Louis Reback, the owner of:
Coin & Stamp World Ltd.
17515 Chatsworth Street
Granada Hills, CA 91344
(818) 360-3813
He goes to the Long Beach show so everyone feel free to go up to his table and ask if he minds if you cherrypick thru his coins. It'll piss him off so much. He'll raise his voice and tell you to leave.
BTW, did you leave with/without the coins you had stacked up? good point about dealers being afraid they'll get "beat" by someone picking stuff over. my buddy, the local shop owner, was unaware of 56 franklin's being T1 and T2 till i told him. to his credit i don't think he really cares about that kind of stuff after he places an item in the display case. if he misses something he just moves on, but maybe he's the exception. the way i look at that is that he does me right so i'll help him if i can, one hand washing the other. we have a good thing going, but if i'm ever in Granada Hills and i chance upon ol' grumpy Louis.......
al h.
I haven't been back. I occasionally go to the shop directly across the street (Mid-Valley Coin). The owner, Chris, is nice.
things to buy. He asked me if I was looking for dollars or halfs in the mint
sets. I told him I was looking for anything, but especially quarters and he
became irate and kicked me out of his shop. My only consolation is that
a few choice comments later, I and half his customers walked out.
you should've left everything right on the counter and walked out. that's the sweetest move of them all. many times i've walked out of shops when they acted like i was just a hassle (because they had to get up from watching "the price is right" or something).
i remember when i was looking to buy a new car in 1994. after the saleslady had spent about 5 hours showing me different cars and taking me for probably 7-8 test drives, we started doing paperwork and working on a deal. they play that game where they run back and forth between the manager and you. after the third time the manager yelled "that (last) deal stands for exactly 10 minutes, i'm not gonna deal with this anymore". not to mention the guy was a loud, obnoxious jackass anyway. she walked into the room where i was already packed up and on my way out. i told her i wasn't really interested anymore and walked right out the door. she actually followed me into the parking lot telling me we could work it out. she'd spent nearly the whole day with me. i told her she could thank her manager for being an a-hole and left.
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1 Russ POTD!
I hate when people say stuff like "This ain't a museum" or "You know this stuff is for sale?"
Usually when I pick mint sets for grading I volunteer to pay $5 extra a set. That usually keeps the dealer happy and when I find the right coin the extra I pay is insignificant. I want the dealer to be happy to see me and not see me as a pain. If they get that little extra it helps. Have even had a few call me when they get fresh deals in to pick through before blowing them out.
the just misses too, though.
Louis isn't a bad guy, you just have to get to know him, though he can be a little gruff. Now that I've gotten to know him he lets me cherry pick. Not a problem at all. His son Bruce is terrific though, he can talk coins for hours.
He (Louis) really doesn't care about the cherry picking, he just hates dealers that come into his store and cherry pick. If you're a collector he doesn't really care. He really doesn't know too much about varieties or mods, I had to point out to him a recent die var. on the 72 Ikes, it didn't seem like he really cared either.
What's Mid Valley like?
Michael
Years later when I went there he told me that he didn't want people cherrypicking the nice coins. He said "some of those coins are nice and some aren't so nice. I don't want people buying only the nice coins". I asked him why he didn't price the nicer ones accordingly. He was pissed and told me that if I didn't like it I could leave because he didn't need my business.
It's also stupid considering that he takes a $3 coin (which he probably paid 10¢ for) and prices it at $7.95. The only people who purchase from him and the ones that are going to cherrypick or that don't know any better.
This is just my opinion, but based on what I have personally seen and the stories I have heard I would personally classify Louis as a scumbag dealer. Some of the stories I have heard are revolting. One incident that I saw makes me think he would screw over an old lady for a cent. Maybe I am wrong and the stories I heard weren't accurate, but that's my opinion based on what I have seen and have been told. Go to Mid-Valley and ask the customers about Louis. You'll hear some interesting stories that will make you think twice about going there.
Bruce is very nice. His other son wasn't so nice, but I don't think he does anything with coins anymore. I remember Louis screaming at Bruce one day. Louis asked where some set was and Bruce said he had sold it to X. Louis was screaming that he should not have sold it to him and was outraged at the price he sold it for (probably only 150% retail). He called him stupid. For those that don't know, Bruce is an extremely nice guy who has some sort of physical impairment. After screaming at him he asked if he had dipped some coins. When Bruce said no he started screaming again to get him to stop what he was doing (helping me) and go dip the coins so they could sell them.
Mid-Valley used to be much better. It has a 810 lot bid board that used to be really hot until Chris stopped allowing customers to put up their own material. He had planned on closing the shop. He reversed his decision and he now allows some customer material on his board. It's slowly getting back to where it used to be.
Mid-Valley used to be owned by a guy named Ron. One day Ron walked down the street (maybe 5 doors down on the same block) to Coin & Stamp World to buy a stamp book. Louis refused to sell him the book and told him to leave. Ron had me go into his shop to purchase the book. Louis is an assh*le. There is no other way of putting it.
I think a comparison with car shopping would be similar to coin purchasing. Would you let the salesman just sell you a car with your desired options, saying, "oh we got 4 dozen of them identically equipped, just take this one"?
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What would your slabbed coins be worth if the grading services went out of business? What would your coins be worth if the Internet was taken offline for good?
You obviously have many more years experience with Louis then I do and will defer to your opinion. I really only started to get to know him this year. I'll still go there, but I watch a little closer for the traits you have described.
I've never to Mid Valley, I have to check them out. Any other places in the Valley you would recommend? I tried Valley View, but again them seemed a little reluctant to show me anything. I'll have to try that I'll pay $5 more for a set if I like it trick.
There's a store in West Covina, owned by a woman named Tracy, I think (very pretty
My two cents
Michael
She turned me onto toning and she has a really nice collection of toned coins. They're right off the 10, I think they're called Covina Coin and they'll be at Long Beach.
Michael
i wonder if you guys know how fortunate you are to two, three or four shops that close to each other!! i think it's funny that you also have to deal with some eccentric personalities, but in my neck-o-the-woods it's easily a 30-45 minute drive to the next dealer. and they aren't "pure" coin shops but rather coin and jewelry or pawn and something else mixed in. i am lucky to have a nice place only minutes away and the coin aspect of the store seems to draw the most attention.
al h.
NW Indiana is great for coin shops. There are five major operations within a few miles,
and dozens within 2 1/2 hours.