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PSA 9, PSA 10

I've heard it on this board and from others, including Joe O., "buy the card and not the slab". Good advice. So when it comes to comparisons between 9's and 10's, many folks say they can't tell the differences between the two. If that's the case, why are such fantastic premiums (usually a minimal 10X over nines) paid for 10's over 9's, such as the recent '71 and '63 Clementes, or the everyday 87F Bonds. Either these cards are incredibily scrutinized at the 10 level by the buyer (who must see differences that the majority of people can't), or folks are paying for the slab and pop report on 10's. Possibly a little of both? It just seems odd to spend a fantastic mount of money on these subtleties that most folks couldn't tell existed anyway. So is it fair to say that you are paying for the slab with 10's? I realize also that if you have wads of money to spend, it's not that big a deal. (I'm looking at it from the "non-wads of money" perspective)
BOTR

Comments

  • I would agree. If I were going to spend a significant amount of money on a card, I'd want it to be "GEM MINT" rather than just "MINT". That would be for the modern cards. Its much more difficult to find the 10s in vintage and probably would be out of my price range any way.
    Currently collecting the Nolan Ryan Basic and Topps Player sets.

    NAXCOM
  • For the Registry users, the PSA 10 is
    such a huge points boost that many
    will shell out the BIG BUCKS for the
    advantage over the competition!
    imageimage
  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭
    BugOnTheRug:

    Actually -- there is a discount implicit in PSA 10's -- because more people believe the way you do than do not. The differences between any two grades on PSA's grading scale can be very slight or subjective. With modern cards, I cannot often tell the difference between 9s and 10s, but for centering. With vintage, I usually can tell the difference between a 9 and a 10. 9's often have flaws -- albeit slight, but they are there. In fact -- every vintage 10 I have ever seen or owned has some minor imperfection with it -- but often only at the magnification level.

    But back to my first point -- the rarity. If you consider the populations of any card in PSA 9 and PSA 10 -- the PSA 10 is usually a population one or two card, whereas the PSA 9 population can be dozens upon dozens. Most vintage PSA 10's sell for approximately four to five times the PSA 9 price -- some sell for significantly more, some sell for significantly lower multiples (think Mantle...)

    Thus, though PSA 10's are often 10 to 20 times rarer than a PSA 9 -- sometimes more than 20 times rarer, the premiums paid for them do not match the scarcity component.

    On a similar note, too -- many PSA 8's look or have better eye-appeal than a PSA 9; it is only minute (loupe) or back corner wear that keeps one at the 9 level and the other at the 8. And there are significant premiums paid for 9s over 8s.

    MS
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • dudedude Posts: 1,454 ✭✭
    BugOnTheRug,

    First, I haven't heard that expression, "Bug On The Rug" since my childhood days listening to Bob Prince broadcasting Pirate games. Is that where you heard it, or did come from somewhere else?

    Second, regarding vintage 10's, I agree with mikeschmidt's post. Like any graded card there is some subjectivity to it. As I mentioned before in other threads, I have a love/hate relationship with 10's. They are wonderful cards to look at most of the time. But on the other hand, I've bought 10's and owned a 9 example and saw virtually no difference between the two cards. That is frustrating - especially when you've paid through the whazoo for that PSA 10 card. But on the other hand, as BKAH mentioned, when the Registries reach a stable level of activity, I believe the 10's will separate the elite collections from the very good ones and they will eventually command even more outrageous prices. I guess it all remains to be seen.

  • BugOnTheRugBugOnTheRug Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭
    dude - I was hoping a pirate fan was aboard: yep, bug-on-the-rug and you-can-kiss-it-goodbye! were in the good'ole bob prince days. what memories! I was quite lucky to grow up in western pa. and root for the pirates and steelers in the 70's.
    I appreciate the above threads from those more knowledgable than myself with graded cards. I'm crash-coursing on graded cards in hopes of making intelligent choices in the future as I revamp my collection. As with most things in life, most anything can be broken down into a detailed analysis, and I like that. The only thing that all this information can't do is make my groceries cheaper at Safeway.............
    BOTR
  • helionauthelionaut Posts: 1,555 ✭✭
    If you are building a collection with strict high quality in mind, of course you should be comfortable with every card under it's assigned grade. The PSA 10 grade doesn't mean a card is flawless. PSA seems to discount printing problems more than I'd like. You often see 9s with multiple print bubbles and other problems, and 8s with all kinds of smears, dots, bubbles, etc., not to mention diamond cutting. Even 10s aren't immune. There was a 1972T PSA 10 Namath on ebay yesterday and the front, at least, is extremely nice but even it had a print dot, and it seems like it might be a common thing, comparing it to the example on the 72T SMR page. And we've all seen 10s that are more than a hair off-center. The other companies recognize that you can have an extremely nice card and it will still have something wrong with it, even if it's not even really visible to the naked eye, or worse, something that's not visible when it's slabbed, like an edge problem. I've had BGS 9.5s that would surely be PSA 10s, and the one BGS 10 I've seen in person had that little something extra. Maybe it's time for PSA 11 for the truly perfect cards.

    When it comes to figuring out what justifies a price, the slab is definitely part of it, part of the reason for the popularity of third-party grading to begin with. But I'd think the person who pays a high premium for a 10 without very close examination is doing so not because they are building the best collection possible, but for other reasons such as resale, speculation, king-of-the-hillmanship, etc.
    WANTED:
    2005 Origins Old Judge Brown #/20 and Black 1/1s, 2000 Ultimate Victory Gold #/25
    2004 UD Legends Bake McBride autos & parallels, and 1974 Topps #601 PSA 9
    Rare Grady Sizemore parallels, printing plates, autographs

    Nothing on ebay
  • MS is right. It is a scarcity issue. If PSA were to suddenly lower their standards, and start grading lots of vintage cards as 10's, the prices would reflect this. The current 10's, which garner a big premium, would go down in value even though the card is the same.

    While most people say they buy the card, and not the slab, the price paid is usually the slab. There may be minor fluctuations in price based on the quality of the card, but a Mantle PSA 8 will never sell for the same as a PSA 9. Take the same card out of the 9, and put it in an 8, and the price goes down 75% for the same card. That is why everyone is upset when their cards don't get the grade they think they deserve. It is still the same card, but the market value is much different in a different slab.
    Ole Doctor Buck of the Popes of Hell

  • dudedude Posts: 1,454 ✭✭
    BugOnTheRug,

    Yes! I grew up in Western PA also. Those were the days! The Steeler and Pirates had great teams in the 70's. Its always nice meeting other fans of that incredible era. Welcome to the Forum.
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