IMO, out of chances

prooflike

The diagnostic is the dot by the star in the left field obverse

Link #1

Link #2

The coin is defintely XF due to wear on the cottonballs, lower hair curls worn, etc...

List of all the circ/cleaned stuff this guy may try to pawn off at MS60+

You make your own decision, but I wouldn't touch this guy's auctions with a 20 foot pole!

Russ

The evidence does seem to be mounting.

Russ, NCNE

kryptonitecomics

I don't think anyone would debate that his practices are anything but ethical. I just don't see why those that don't like him can't just ignore him. People seem to be obsessed with trashing him in 50% of the threads and even start new one's to continue the bashing. I don't even want to try to defend this guy as you have all made some valid points about his buying and selling practices. I even agree that he doesn't seem to want to help his cause by getting along. It just seems like the more threads that go up about him the more the majority of the borad members tend to migrate to throwing out jabs VS posting interesting coin pics, stating coin opinions, and asking coin questions.

cacheman

Possibly 1% of the current membership are aware of this person. Many of us ignored until it was apparent that he was continuing to manipulate "non-exposed" members into hopefully grading his cheap ebay purchases higher than what he bought them for. Then he turns around and uses that grade as gospel according to this board for his auctions. Does this help the boards image? I think not!

Yeah, Krypt, we can be big boys about this and ignore him, not a problem. However, there are more than a couple of us here that will make sure to INFORM the "non-exposed" when it eventually is deemed necessary

its4real

Hey!

>>>List of all the circ/cleaned stuff this guy may try to pawn off at MS60+<<<

Be sure and watch our for that Big Bertha, Pro VFT 9.5 degree driver - no way it's an MS-60 - I have tried it. Before I got ahold of it, it was an MS-69!

Don't you guys have anything better to do?

its4real

Insight for today:

It is against forum policy for any member of this forum to buy anything on E-bay and then sell it at a higher price on E-bay.

squad: "But he's lying about it!!!"

teacher: "No class - he may be hyping it a little but that's a part of advertising - look in your textbooks"

squad: "But it's deceptive!"

teacher: "there are no lies in his ads - only opinions so it isn't deceptive either"

squad: "but teacher! We don't do this sort of thing!"

teacher: "just because you didn't think of it, you shouldn't be jerks"

sqaud: "but wait! He JUST BOUGHT this stuff!"

teacher: "where does it say in your books that a certain amount of time has to pass?"

I'm curious guys...

do you know what capitalism is? Do you think it's bad? Just wondering.

its4real

Oh finally! Good news!

Cacheman is going to be the new police and protect everyone! Thank goodness!

>>>>However, there are more than a couple of us here that will make sure to INFORM the "non-exposed" when it eventually is deemed necessary<<<<

If you get "exposed", just PM him and he'll.....oh well - he'll do something I'm sure.

cacheman

Must have found his lost stash of nose-candy...........

Coppernicus

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz......

dbldie55

Yeah, what is wrong with taking a coin that grades XF, saying it is MS60 and say that many forum members agree with that grading(actually a MS62 was mentioned). There is nothing wrong with mis-representing an item on Ebay. It happens everyday. It is anyones right to rip off the unsuspecting. Many times you can plead ignorance, but this would not be one of those cases. This is an outright attempt to fraud a buyer.

This is actually very interesting information.

itsnotjustme

An apology.

I'm sorry for expecting you to tell the truth when you don't.
I'm sorry for being disturbed you are using the boards in your deception of less informed collectors. That should be OK.
I'm sorry I didn't want to give you a fourth and fifth chance when you continued your wrong ways. Every deserves a chance, and another, and another.
I'm sorry you ever came to these boards where you are subject to such abuse for your "advertising" practices.
I'm sorry for your lack of ethics... maybe I should have loaned you some.
I'm sorry people flamed your auctions when we could have helped you hype them.
I'm sorry the raw coins you buy off e-bay don't all turn out to be worth much more than you pay for them.

nwcs

I don't think most of us graded it MS-62 or so. I believe most of us said it was harshly cleaned and clearly not MS.

DHeath

I don't agree with the tactics its4real employs, and I think he's interested in "getting over" on less informed buyers. I also think he's interested in using the responses to his "What do you think of this coin" posts to selectively pluck grade opinions to use in his auctions. Since I'm not his ethics monitor, I will refrain from comment on his auctions, but I will also refrain from comment on his "Help grade this" threads too. Meantime, if you support this selling approach and think no one is harmed, help him out with your posts.

cacheman

TTT

ccrdragon

I have stayed out of the fray on this one so far, but I have been reading the other posts on this board
and I have to make a comment. If you will check out this other thread, you will see that its4real has
basically layed out his business philosophy to the point where there is no argument left:

Thread

When he posts a question about a coin on this board (or any other coin board) and people give him
opinions, he can then use those opinions (in or out of context) to lend legitimacy to his auctions and
make the auction a 'great' add that will suck in the newbie or the unsuspecting (who say that if the
people on the coin board say its so...).

And no, I don't have a problem with capitalism (and this is one of the ways that capitalism shows up)
but this is an example of capitalism at it's worst - where you take various facts that may or may not be
true on thier own, throw them together so that they look all the more impressive and use them to snare
people into buying something that is represented as something that it really isn't.

I also have a very big problem with the ethics involved in this kind of thing because to be a good
salesman the deal has to have advantages for both parties (buyer and seller) and these kinds of
deals only have advantages for the seller. I also have a problem with anybody who skates down the
middle of that fine line between fact and fiction!

Just my two cents worth - but then again, I may be wrong!

Gilbert

Is it possible that its an indirect way to discredit the collecting forums. There have been a few that feel they are nothing more than chatrooms of no-nothings out to discredit their feeble attempts at bilking the unsuspecting.

Russ

<< <i>do you know what capitalism is? >>



I know what it is, and happen to be a staunch supporter of same. Funny thing is, though, after nearly 13 years in business for myself I've never once attempted to deceive a customer.

I wonder, its4real, do you know what capitalism is?

Russ, NCNE

UncleJoe

Unfortunately I don't think any amount of discussion will make a difference to its4real, he just doesn't get it.

It would be interesting to find out what his reaction would be if he was duped by someone using similar tactics as his. (I know, he'll deny he could ever be taken like that because he is too savvy).

Joe.

zenny

uncle joe - it's hard to get too duped buying 8 dollar coins one at a time...

anyway, i have stayed out of this so far, but as one who was quoted in the infamous "anaconda roanoke" auction/thread i see two differences that point to the ends of the scale with regard to "capitalist ethics."

1. anaconda did not originate the dialogue with the board; it was pointed out to him that there was discussion, (including bits of history of the coin) going on and he added quotes as well as a link to the thread in his auction, IMO as entertainment/information (i guess that would be infotainment) far more than he added it as sales hype. of course, it does tend to take something more than hype to sell a $10,000 plus coin.

new guy came here seeking out big numbers to put in auctions.

2. when it became apparent to anaconda that there were members, even if it were only a couple, who were uncomfortable with his practice, he stopped immediately, (as well as becoming a productive and respected member of the board).

new guy knows there is little respect here for him and hasn't changed a thing.

my one and only post regarding this....

abmluce

Whats wrong with just ignoring his posts untill his act gets cleaned up ?

DHeath

Abmluce,

What's wrong with being silent anytime you see wrongs done?

mrdq

<< <i>Whats wrong with just ignoring his posts untill his act gets cleaned up ? >>



I hesitate to reply also since last time we had a troll he fixated on ME for some reason but the problem I see with ignoring it totally is you have new people coming every day to this forum, even just to watch, and lack of response would/could be construed as acceptance of this practice.

Coppernicus

We owe it to the hobby to NOT ignore this type of behavior!! Attempts to defraud anyone (not necessarily just newbies) must be uncovered and exposed for what they are.

IMHO

Coppernicus

WWBillman

Do you vote?

Do you contribute to political organizations?

When you look out your window and see a crime being committed do you close your blinds and go to bed?

Yes/No, Why?

Silence is acceptance. Silence allows those who choose to cheat, lie, & steal prosper. A thief is a thief, a liar is a liar, a cheat is a cheat. Left to their own conscience they will not in the course of due time see the light and change their ways. They have no conscience, that is why our prisons are full and our politicians are corrupt. There is almost always a good side to everyone and everything. But to fixate on that and close your eyes to the bad is acceptance of the bad.

When there is a problem within your family do you just choose to ignore it in hopes it goes away or fixes its self?

A lie is a lie, calling it an OPINION does not change it and is thus deceptive, unethical, & dishonest.

We know what capitalism is.....

Do you know what truth in advertising is? Do you know what ethics is? Do you know what honesty is? Do you believe in “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”?

cacheman

TTT