How Fleer has killed the basketball card industry..
qrich3
Posts: 108
All because of fleer, jersey cards are worthless, rookie cards are worthless and just about everything else in bball is. Because Fleer has to release about 15-20 stupid products each year and make new ones every year such as Force, Genuine etc.. cards are not worth as much. If fleer would just have stuck to about 4-7 products inserts would still be worth money, jerseys would be harder to find but much more appreciated and rookie cards would have some value. The only 2 sets in bball worth anything are SPx and SPA. Fleer decides to make about 25 rc's of each player and number them to all crazy numbers. You can get a card #'d to 1000 and it is worth only $10. Jersey cards which were once so hard to get but extremely valuable can easily be found at a rate of 3-5 a box of Fleer. Not only have they killed the bball industry, they are killing Vince Carter cards. Remember when the first Carter jersey wsa made how expensive and valuable it was? Now since he is under a fleer contract you can easily get a Carter jersey in just about any box. Fleer makes about 50-100 jersey cards a year on just him. So now even a hobby star like Carter has jersey cards worth in the $40 range . So for all of you who collect basketball good luck in wasting your money on fleer products. This is the exact reason I stopped collecting bball and only care for Football since there is less fleer products. One last thing. remember in 96-97 and 97-98 in EX how credential cards were so valuable? Fleer decided to do that again this year in EX and those cards are not even worth a fraction of the 96-97, 97-98 cards
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The point is........basketball has way more to offer than vince carter and fleer products! If you think football is better then just go collect it. Why do people have to always start talking smack when bball is in the offseason?
there is way too much product on the market, but as long as people search for bargains and not for cards they actually want, prices will keep going down. but thats another problem - too many people out there trying to make money in the hobby.
http://www.geocities.com/ostoralian/cards/
that beckett is good for cards we don't really care about, if there is a card we know is hot or not we
go to ebay for a price quote!
If you count up the number of products that fleer has put out you will be horrified! The sad part
of it is we have let them get away with putting out a bunch of products that don't have autographs
in them! We all know what the companies are afraid of giving us! You look at the great products
of the past 3 years and most of them had a killer autograph list. In order to get the guys the
company has to spend some money! We all know how many 1/2-inch squares you can get from
a size XXXXL jersey! That isn't costing anyone a lot of money, heck I would I bet that most of them
arn't even game used!
So fleer knows this and runs with it, coming out with all these gimmic game used cards, box toppers
and 1/1's that may or may not exist....and what do we do?? we jump like a fish who has never
see the underside of a worm before!
I can honestly say that I have bought very little fleer basketball. I see them working....have you
ever checked out their combined odds???? 1:9 for autos or game used, then you look and the
odds for the autos and they are like 1:179...what do they think we are idiots??? yep
...and we are! Im stuck with junk because I was an idiot. There are good products out there, we
just have to find them. Can someone please name any Fleer product that has the most sought
after rookie card of that player in it for that year???
I can't name one! Now what kind of track record is that?? Thats sick! Fleer is thinking alright....
If you buy it they will come.......and you will make more!
Go ahead and buy their junk if you want, but Im out!
Kevin
What's wrong with that? I would never have one if they still sold for $500. To me jersey cards are cool because they got a piece of the players jersey, not because they are worth 300+. But I guess some people just like to collect expensive cards & would rather pay $500 than $25 for a Kobe Jersey. Too bad for them.
Also you shouldnt blame Fleer for all that. If they put out many Jerseys & numbered RC's then it's because people want them & collect them. Every single company would do that. And last time I checked UD & Topps released just as much "garbage" as Fleer.
psavintage:
Maybe people collect jersey cards because they like them & not because they expect them to go up. But I guess book value or eBay price is the only thing that matters to you. I for one couldnt care less about Iverson autos, even if they sell for 2x book on eBay.
joestalin:
86-89 Fleer has the best RC's from those particular years.
But Fleer can't really control what collectors call a players best RC. For example Carter's SPx finite is rarer than the SP Authentic but the SP is still worth much more... explain that? Is that UD's fault?
In 97-98 I doubt the Topps Chrome RC's were any harder to get than EX-2001 & Ultra RC's (Two fleer/skybox products), but since the Chrome cards from the previous year were so hyped, these 97-98 cards were all of a sudden the players best & most expensive RC - not Fleers fault at all.
<< <i>One last thing. remember in 96-97 and 97-98 in EX how credential cards were so valuable? Fleer decided to do that again this year in EX and those cards are not even worth a fraction of the 96-97, 97-98 cards >>
You forgot.. Jordan's Fleer RC is like $1200+ but Kobe's Fleer RC is $12 at most. WHAT?!!?!? Jordan is 1000x better than Kobe?!?!? It's Fleers fault again!
proved my point! Even playoff has key rookie cards in baseball that are particular players
best. Fleer has nothing, actually they had greats of the game which has huge in 2000, then
2001 was average and then they make 2002 with a bunch of game used cards and make
the autograph odds 1:12 instead of 1:6....oh yeah fleer we won't notice that!
In the past 3 years (which I call the GU'ed boom), fleer has printed up product after product
after product and no one cares about any of them, that is sad. Fleer has done nothing
to change or up-date the hobby. Their flooding has caused the partial market collapse!
Kevin
As 97-98 you have Duncan and Mcgrady. Both of their credentials sell well with the lower version commanding top dollar.
98-99 is a year I collect and it also has a strong following with RC's like Nowitzki, Pierce, Carter, Jamison etc. The PSA 10 Vince Carter credentials future #ed to 2 fetched $12,000US, while other key cred RC's have been geting good prices.
As for the next few years, you get RC's like Francis etc that still sell well. This years rookie crop is still fresh and honesty, you don't see alot of the the Future RC's available. When they do come up for auction they still sell well ie Gasol, Richardson etc.
Out of the Fleer products, I'd say that the credentials are one of the best issues that they make. Very low production and impossible to pull (only have pulled one cred in too many boxes) As for the other stuff with their jersey's and auto's, the autographics always seem to do well.
With all that low end stuff, if you don't like it, don't buy it, plain and simple. Fleer is basically milking their cash cow Vince Carter because at one point he was the hottest player on the planet and still have a demand in the hobby. Have I ever purchased one of those low end cards? No....the worst example was that Army fatigues Carter card.....guy was wearing an army suit and they cut it up...WOW!!! There will always be collectors that want a piece of their favourite players. If you want something that will be worth it a few years down the road buy something that is limited with not alot around. The RC's in the newest relases do have too many RC's but you can pick off the best ones with ease. Best RC's from last year are SPX Spectrums, UD Ultimate and Topps Chrome Black Refractors. They may be pricy for some but hey they will keep their value unlike those $10 RC's #ed to 1000.
But you never know...could be a sleep product like the 96 credentials........yea right...
if your in it to waste money then be my guest and keep buying your 25 dollar kobe jersey's. I'd rather save my 25$ in the bank.
Erik
"Stop talking, negotiating,
Your feeble attempts at world peace
Give me a %#@*ing break
Need worldwide genocide, planetary suicide
And when the whole damn world is dead
there's your %#@*ing peace"
mik put it very well, I want a Duncan jersey card....not a $500 Duncan jersey card. If the only jerseys available were still 1:2000 packs or whatever ridiculous ratio, you'd see a TON less collectors.
<< <i>mik - By me saying iverson autos book so low and sell so high on ebay just shows how messed up beckett is. I for one could careless what you actually think I collect for. If I wanted to collect for book value then I would buy the the little game used cards of kobe that book for 200 like the spx winning materials for 40 bucks and come brag on cu that I have a 200 card!!!! Exactly who cares if you don't care about an iverson auto? Who cares if you like the rams? Nobody, but yourself. Don't go off talking about crap you obviously don't know of. >>
I just used the Iverson Auto thing as an example, that some people buy cards because they like them & not because they may be worth so much in the future. If I buy some gu on eBay for $5 how much can they possibly go down in price? If you don't collect for book value, like you say, why did you say game used was future commons & you felt pity for the people who collected it?
<< <i>As far as kobe fleer rc and jordans fleer rc..... we'll I shouldn't even have to go into this at all, but kobe has like 500 diffrent rc's while jordan has 1. If you add up all the book values of every kobe rc then you will actually see what i'm talking about. It's kind of funny jordan had only 1 insert from his rookie year and it only books for 250 while kobe's inserts book for how much? Nuff said >>
I was being sarcastic & I have no idea what you are talking about?
<< <i>if your in it to waste money then be my guest and keep buying your 25 dollar kobe jersey's. I'd rather save my 25$ in the bank. >>
See that's what I meant... you do care a lot about what eBay (in the future (maybe)) or Beckett says.
How exactly is buying a Kobe jersey for $25 wasting money? LOL. Please explain.
Cry me a river.
<< <i>
In the past 3 years (which I call the GU'ed boom), fleer has printed up product after product
after product and no one cares about any of them, that is sad. Fleer has done nothing
to change or up-date the hobby. Their flooding has caused the partial market collapse!
>>
Who do you think started with Autographed cards? Serial Numbered cards? & even short printed RC's in the late 90's? Fleer did, then the following year every company did the same thing.
<< <i>
<< <i>One last thing. remember in 96-97 and 97-98 in EX how credential cards were so valuable? Fleer decided to do that again this year in EX and those cards are not even worth a fraction of the 96-97, 97-98 cards >>
You forgot.. Jordan's Fleer RC is like $1200+ but Kobe's Fleer RC is $12 at most. WHAT?!!?!? Jordan is 1000x better than Kobe?!?!? It's Fleers fault again! >>
No, what happened there was when 86/87 Fleer was released, dealers wouldn't buy them. They were like $5-$7 a box (dealer cost). But since basketball had no major release since 81/82 Topps, dealer saw it as junk. And because of that, 86/87 is scarce.
exactly nobody even really cared about the 86 fleer product when it came out and people use to just trash those cards. I don't think most of these kids understand that. That set has so many of the well known players rc's and they only book for how much? New players who have not even done what barkley has already have rc's booking 50 times higher. I'm just trying to save you kids some money, because i've been burned quite a few times falling into the gameused and new rc trap.
Like I said, thinly veiled snobbery and contempt for the average trader. Pretty disgusting.
I must also concur with Ryan and Mik I believe it was who said they like affordable game used. I was ripping boxes like they were going out of style in Upper Decks early days of game jersey infancy. They were placed 1:2500 boxes I believe. (just a guess dont jump me for it). No average joe could afford to buy them in the secondary market either. I like having the oppurtunity to have a piece of jersey without having to take out a second loan on my house to do so.
As for Fleer, I find their customer service to be horrible. I personally do not like most of the cards they put out. I personally feel that Upper Deck is doing a far better job with putting out products for the high, medium and low end collectors. Their high end products seem popular with the people that can shell out for them, I have been very pleased with their mid-range products which I gravitate to as a working class indivisual, and their low end offers many oppurtunities for decent rookies and gu'd for our younger generation.
Just my thoughts.. not meant to hurt anyones feelings.
<< <i>25 dollars on a kobe jersey is a waste of money TO ME. Maybe not TO YOU. >>
Well then I wouldnt be WASTING my money on it.
Using your logic every baseball card collector would be wasting his money because I don't like baseball.
<< <i>You don't get what i'm saying? JORDAN HAD 1 INSERT FROM HIS R O O K I E Y E A R AND IT ONLY BOOKS FOR 250$! That's a fleer sticker which nobody even cared about back in the days and cards these days get treated like gold. >>
& this has WHAT to do with the discussion?
<< <i>All i'm saying if your in this hobby to waste money then be my guest and keep buying new inserts and game used products for 25 dollars so you have the pleasure of saying look at me I have a 100 dollar card! If you want to do that then more power to you buddy, but don't try to say money has no play in this hobby, because money makes this hobby what it is period. NO MONEY NO CARDS. >>
I'm saying that BV dosnt matter so much to everyone as it seems to do to you. I really don't care if my Kobe jersey is worth less in 10 years. I bought it because I wanted a jersey card of his, not because I expected it to go up. That's hardly a waste of money.
The rest you said makes absolutely no sense.
<< <i>
No, what happened there was when 86/87 Fleer was released, dealers wouldn't buy them. They were like $5-$7 a box (dealer cost). But since basketball had no major release since 81/82 Topps, dealer saw it as junk. And because of that, 86/87 is scarce. >>
I was being sarcastic.
<< <i>
I'm just trying to save you kids some money, because i've been burned quite a few times falling into the gameused and new rc trap. >>
What you don't seem to understand is that some people (like me) just wants a jersey card of their favorite player(s). I don't think anyone expects them to go up. If you don't think there is anything cool about Jerseys then fine. Dosnt mean everyone else share your opinion & are wasting their money just because you don't like the card.
<< <i>
<< <i>
No, what happened there was when 86/87 Fleer was released, dealers wouldn't buy them. They were like $5-$7 a box (dealer cost). But since basketball had no major release since 81/82 Topps, dealer saw it as junk. And because of that, 86/87 is scarce. >>
I was being sarcastic.
With the % of Kobe fans on this site, it's hard to tell.
<< <i>autobilia. Don't you think theres alot of kobe fans for a reason? Obviously he runs the basketball market with active players other than jordan for a well deserved reason. Who else are CLASS ACT PEOPLE going to collect ? Allen iverson? Sure kids let's spend a 1,000 dollars on a gangster thug who doesn't like to practice and has has 50 tats on his face. I would, because I like iverson, but I can see why people who would spend tons of money on a class act like jordan not even look in the direction of allen iverson just for the fact of his image. If kobe dies off "which I doubt" this new b-ball market will suffer huge unless of course vince carter can become the man, but we all saw what happend to his cards. >>
You know as well as I do that the Lakers are the Yankees of basketball. It's all about exposure. Just like there are a lot better players than Derek Jeter that sells for a very low % of what his cards sell for. Put Kobe on a team like Golden State or Bucks and that will change very quickly.
<< <i>Listen up uwftke26, you are totally wrong so why don't you and your little crew go have your own discussion. First off, UD started the serially #'ing, GU and autographs. Why do you think the 98-99 UP sp authentic set books so much? Because it is the first serially numbered rc and there are 3500 of each player. Meanwhile fleer makes at least 15 sets with rc's #'d to as low as 750 and they are worth $hit. First off, most people collect stuff for it to be valuable in the future, not for them to lose money. For instance, look at the 99-00 EX set. Francis and Brand were worth $80 when the set came out and now they are worth about $15 apiece. So wouldn't you agree that since Fleer makes that many products that nothing is worth anything? If you collect just for the GU and like pulling your own jersey cards wouldn't you want it to be worth something instead of just listed as a $10 common jersey? Fleer is also killing autographics by putting scrubs such as Jeff foster, Greg Ostertag and many other no names in their sets. What normal collector would like to pay $60 for a box to wind up with an autograph of Jeff foster? Plus since fleer loads the product with GU, you are basically wasting your money and are better off just buying the card you want off ebay or some other online site. When I was 12, fleer only had a few products such as: Fleer, Fleer Ultra, Skybox Premium and maybe 1 or 2 other sets. It was then when inserts that were 1:360 packs were so hard to come by but when you got one it was worth it. I remember I had gotten a Kobe Bryant Silky Smooth insert worth $120 in 97 in a box that I had gotten for Christmas. That same exact card has lost half its value since inserts are no longer worth anything. Younger kids like to get GU but when it comes to the point when they ask "who is this guy" that it becomes ridiculous. Its then when that same kid becomes more aware of the NBA when the realize that it was such a waste to buy a box of fleer when the could have gotten the same exact GU card on ebay for a couple of bucks. So to finish off I am not whining or saying that you shouldn't buy Fleer products I am just bringing up a point on how Fleer has flooded the market with sets that stay around for 1 or 2 years then die out. UD has SPx and SPA which are consistently the cream of the crop because they are consistent with it and do not release as much junk as fleer does. In all honesty, who actually bought a box of 99-00 fleer force bball? Remember how the rc's were #'d to only 1600 and were only about 1 or 2 in a box, you paid about $75-$85 for it and got stuck with busts such as William Avery? If fleer would just keep it consistent and make even 7-10 products a year and keep it annual they would be worth something in the future where you can share them with your kids and if you leave your collection to them they should be proud that the collection has increased in value instead of it being sold on ebay for a fraction of what was originally paid for it. >>
Technically HOOPS started Auto's in 92/93. UD was first to serial # RC's, but not cards EX started doing that is 96/97 EX (which I believe fleer owns.) so really Ryan was right. In regards to Fleer Force from 99/00 you could spen 85 on that box and pull Avery OR spend 150 on a box of SPx and pull William Avery, so that sn't the best point either.
<< <i>First off, UD started the serially #'ing, GU and autographs. >>
No they didnt, not in basketball atleast & I doubt they did in the other sports.
qrich3:
No matter what product you buy boxes from you usually get more value for your money buying single cards on eBay. If you don't like what you get in boxes just don't buy them.
But... How is getting 3 Game Used that book $10-$20 in a box a bad thing?
In your beloved 96-97 season you would usually get a couple of inserts that booked $2-$20 in a box.. but if that's what you like I'll be happy to trade you some inserts for your game used.. PM if you want to make a trade like that!
<< <i>
Technically HOOPS started Auto's in 92/93. UD was first to serial # RC's, but not cards EX started doing that is 96/97 EX (which I believe fleer owns.) >>
Fleer already had auto's in their 91-92 set. But when Fleer/Skybox released their autographics set in 96-97... the year after every company had tons of autos in their sets all of a sudden.
The first serail numbered cards I think were from 96-97 Flair Showcase & then Ex-2000 a little later. Then every company followed a year later.
Also the RC's from 97-98 Ultra were shortprinted, then next years all RC's except the regular Topps were shortprinted UD just took the next step & added serial numbering to the SP set. If it wasnt for Fleer there would never have been any Carter numbered RC's.
Fleer and other card companies are killing the industry by constantly trying to outdo each other on chase cards (whether game used, autographs, serial #ed cards, or inserts). They make it impossible for player collectors to assemble complete collections of their favorites, make set building extraordinarily difficult, and invest each new product with far too much hype and a short shelf life. It's not unique to any one company.
I fear that the other sports are shortly going the way of baseball and destroying every vintage memorabilia item they can find in the pursuit of more exciting chase cards. Yes, they can get thousands of pieces from one jersey. But after those are all gone, what next?
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>Why would it be a bad thing that there are cards of common players in autographed sets? The choice isn't between having a 1:24 packs autograph where all the cards are superstars and a 1:24 packs autograph where 1/6 of the cards are superstars, it's between having a 1:144 packs autograph where all the cards are superstars and a 1:24 packs autograph where 1/6 of the cards are superstars. Either way, there are the same number of superstar autographs. the difference is that in the product with the broader checklist, you get additional autographed cards. While you may not want Greg Ostertag or Jeff Foster, someone does. Sometimes, the cards you dismiss as low-end may even become popular - take a look at Scot Pollard, for example. He became a cult hero to Kings fans, and his cards were selling well on eBay.
Fleer and other card companies are killing the industry by constantly trying to outdo each other on chase cards (whether game used, autographs, serial #ed cards, or inserts). They make it impossible for player collectors to assemble complete collections of their favorites, make set building extraordinarily difficult, and invest each new product with far too much hype and a short shelf life. It's not unique to any one company.
I fear that the other sports are shortly going the way of baseball and destroying every vintage memorabilia item they can find in the pursuit of more exciting chase cards. Yes, they can get thousands of pieces from one jersey. But after those are all gone, what next?
Nick >>
I still think card companies need to eliminate some of the base inserts. Fleer Genuine is a good example. It's pointless to have 2 versions of the same insert (League Leaders, League Leaders Game Used, Tip of the Cap, Tip of the Cap Game Used, Bats Incredible, Bats Incredible Game Used, etc.) Since Beckett basically controls users when buying cards and has eliminated the value by using multipliers, why don't companies just eliminate those "worthless" inserts. That would also help out player collectors. I love rare vintage game used cards (bats, jerseys, shoes, and pants). The seats, walls, goal post, dirt, etc. needs to be removed also. That would make the odds tougher and by eliminating all the unnecessary inserts, that would add more value to base cards. I think companies should also mix in the rookie cards instead of putting them all at the end of the set. Also, they could do cards like the vintage days and just SP cards at random where you will have some base cards and some rookies SP'ed. If they cut down on some of the game used, they could make the game used swatches bigger or at least the size of the older Upper Deck game used cards. Cut down all game used to jersey, patches, bats, batting gloves, and shoes for current players and bats, jerseys, patches, pants, shoes, gloves, etc. for vintage players. Make the odds 1 in 4 boxes for game used and 1 in 2.5 boxes for autographs.
AFAIK you're all wrong about who started the Autographed cards and #'ed cards. I think it was 92' Donruss Baseball that was the first set to have an autographed #'ed card. It was a Ryan Sandberg Autographed card #'ed to 5000 .
Then again maybe it was 91 Upper Deck Baseball with their autographed Nolan Ryan cards. I don't believe those were numbered though.
<< <i>AFAIK you're all wrong about who started the Autographed cards and #'ed cards. I think it was 92' Donruss Baseball that was the first set to have an autographed #'ed card. It was a Ryan Sandberg Autographed card #'ed to 5000 .
Then again maybe it was 91 Upper Deck Baseball with their autographed Nolan Ryan cards. I don't believe those were numbered though. >>
91/92 Fleer had the Dominique Wilkins subset w/ autos and Dikembe Mutombo subset and autos. 91/92 Upper Deck followed with the Heroes set "Jerry West" which had autos and hand #'d to 2500.
<< <i>ok then with your exposure theory autobilia ......ask yourself why shaq doesn't get the big money? Ask yourself why mr. nike, gatoraide, best dunker in the world, #1 in fan votes aka vince carter don't outsell kobe. Ask yourself why derek jeter doesn't even come close to selling more than kobe. Ask yourself why mr. iverson mvp, best selling jersey, best crossover, leading the league in scoring doesn't outsell kobe. If it was because the lakers are champions then why doesn't shaq outsell kobe? What about magic johnson? Kobe is exposed for a good reason and don't act like if you didn't put michael jordan on the warriors he would have 6 rings. Kobe might be lucky, but so was michael jordan. Actually I don't call it luck I call it destiny. >>
Shaq suffers from having a rookie card in the early 90's when cards were mass produced. Just like rookie cards in baseball from 87 up to 1990. Shaq is the most expensive rookie in 92/93. Just like in baseball, look what Curt Schilling has achieved, but because he was a rookie when cards where mass produced, you can pick them up for pennies. He could through 5 straight perfect games and he rookies would never go over $20 (and that's pushing it). Now, if there was a Topps Chrome product in 92/93, Shaq's RC would be up to about $800.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>like shaq says. I DON'T BELIEVE IN "IF" >>
Yes, but you do believe in "mass production".
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<< <i>kobe's rookie cards are mass produced so what's your point in all of this? Your acting like kobe's cards are not MASS produced compared to shaq.Please save yourself the time and effort to convince me shaq would outsell kobe if shaq had a topps chrome. >>
92/93 had no premium products and still look at Shaq's UD SP and trade card RC.
As far as $5.00 jersey cards TO EACH HIS OWN. Some may think its a waste of money while others relish the opportunity to be able to afford a card the otherwise could not.
I happen to collect complete basketball sets with ALL short print rookies. This is somewhat of a challenge and depending on the set there are not too many made of each set when you take into consideration the unopened boxes, cards overseas, damaged cards, people that collect single rookie cards etc. So in a set like SPX last year with 750 of each rookie-how many do you think were made?
35? I made a set of ALL blue-How many of those do you think there were-3? 4?
Its fun and i could care less about the value-i do it for fun
tuneman
Email me directly at tonytune@aol.com
<< <i>Its obvious that game used are dirt cheap now-especially since they have one per pack coming out. Autographs are getting much easier to get too but not of the big five ( Carter,kobe, Shaq,Duncan,Iverson ) so the real thing to collect if your in it for money is GAME USED AUTOGRAPHED CARDS-those are like jersey cards were in 1997-very dificult to get-
As far as $5.00 jersey cards TO EACH HIS OWN. Some may think its a waste of money while others relish the opportunity to be able to afford a card the otherwise could not.
I happen to collect complete basketball sets with ALL short print rookies. This is somewhat of a challenge and depending on the set there are not too many made of each set when you take into consideration the unopened boxes, cards overseas, damaged cards, people that collect single rookie cards etc. So in a set like SPX last year with 750 of each rookie-how many do you think were made?
35? I made a set of ALL blue-How many of those do you think there were-3? 4?
Its fun and i could care less about the value-i do it for fun
tuneman >>
Oh and you do know that the new Bowman's Best baseball is $15 per pack with 1 relic or auto per pack.