PCGS......The Private Company, The Public Company.

dragon

Back in the 90's when PCGS was a private company, I believe things were a lot different there then they are today as a subsidiary of a public company.

I used to submit quite a few coins to PCGS in the good old days through a local dealer (before they let anyone submit) and bodybags were virtually unheard of at that time to my knowledge, and their grading and standards were very predictable as were their turnaround times IMO. Also, instances of coins being returned with fingerprints or other 'issues' were also nearly non-existent back then to my knowledge. You would very rarely hear someone say something like "I'll never submit another coin to PCGS" or "PCGS obviously has some political agenda" or the like.

Since PCGS has become part of a public company, I get the feeling that their whole operation and corporate culture has changed, as do many privately held companies after going public. It now seems like every week someone is posting regarding a real issue with PCGS, or their customer service, or coins coming back graded nowhere near what they should be, or bodybagged, or fingerprinted, or coins that should have easily crossed over didn't, or something else equally disturbing.

To me, PCGS just 'feels' like a whole different operation then they did back in the 80's and 90's, and from what I hear on this forum, it doesn't really sound like it was a change for the better.

Any opinions on this?

Dragon

(edited to correct a blank screen)

Placid

I have no idea. I only submitted one coin back then. I just didn't want my confused expression left blank

oldcameoproofsguy

My Barbers

crito

I'm sure you know I don't like you or your "friends" in your head, dragon. But, in this case, all I have to say is

dorkkarl

sure i have an opinion. if things have gotten to the point where everyone's longing for "the good old days of plastic", then the hobby is doomed, plain & simple. ESPECIALLY if "the good old days" was the late 80's thru the mid 90's.

look at the facts! i went thru that stage where i was snowed into thinking the right way to buy coins was in plastic. whether anyone admits it or not, if you invested in slabed coins in that time period, you lost out big-time when it came time to sell ten years later. i know because i lived thru that. look at the prices of ms-65 slabed morgans at that time. or slabed gold. it is worth a third today of what it was back then. same for walkers and gold. so if $ was any kind of motiviation for you, plastic was a terrible way to go.

i look back at the good old days when coins were more important than the holder. maybe your experiecnes were a lot different.

K S

tradedollarnut

Doesn't PCGS going public coincide with the advent of this forum? If so, I'd say that has an awful lot to do with the perception that those things are new and rampant. I'd venture to say that a lot more occured prior to them going public than you perceived and that a lot less occurs now than we perceive. It's just a lot more publicized now than it was then!

MacCoin

I never even heard of PCGS untill 99.

CarlWohlforth

Yeah, what TDN said. It is certainly easier to publicly complain now

nwcs

I remember reading a write-up in Coins about PCGS in the late 80s. Sounded really cool till I heard how much they charged! Kept me from trying it till this year. Most companies do change a lot when they go public. The founders leave with bags with a $ embroidered on them and the accountants and political machinery take charge. Sometimes a company grows unscathed, but I think most never recapture the unique characteristics and energy of their early days.

jom

What dorkkarl said......

jom

BigD5

I don't think the "plastic" had as much to do with the deflating values of those coins, as much as the market, in general.
I think with more inexperienced submitters sending coins in we are getting back more and more information of "bad" results. I still have my coins that I want submitted looked over by another set of eyes. It doesn't hurt, and helps quite a bit, especially if I'm "attached" to a certain coin and think it's better (to me) than what it really is.
A majority of the complaints, or my perception of the majority of the complaints seem to come from "modern" submissions, where the ultra high grades are soooo arbitrary, I'm not sure how often someone can be "consistent" with finding the right ms/68, or 69 grades.

dorkkarl

<< <i>I don't think the "plastic" had as much to do with the deflating values of those coins, as much as the market, in general. >>

don't think so, dude, no way. common-date morgans didn't skyrocket until the advent of slabs. some of those puppies were going for a thousand a pop but ONLY in plastic. those same "grand" coins today are worth $150 to $200. WHY? becuase of the stupid, freaking "pop" reports and "pop-top" BS screeched all over hobby rags like coin-world and coinage magazine about how rare these were - until everone and their brother started sending in morgans. seen how many 81-S got into 66 holders, then 67 and 68 holders? how many are still left in their original holders from the 80's? zilch, and that's because unscrupulous dealers knew it was worth submitting a sixty-something coin ten times till it came back a point higher - and ten times as "valuable". as someone who went through it and lost a butt-load of cash, i blame a lot of the coin market crash on plastic.



<< <i>A majority of the complaints, or my perception of the majority of the complaints seem to come from "modern" submissions, where the ultra high grades are soooo arbitrary, I'm not sure how often someone can be "consistent" with finding the right ms/68, or 69 grades. >>

no question about it.

i got lambasted in that plastic market 10 years ago, and it ain't gonna happen to me again! i hope others out there got luckier, or were smarter then me.

K S

BigD5

I guess you're correct, dude. If you bought those ms/65 Morgans early on, the hype was very similar to what's going on with a lot of the modern, low pop submissions right now.

braddick

Well, two months after PCGS opened their doors I went to a PCGS Authorized Dealer in LaJolla (a bit of a drive for me then but he was the closest one around) and tried to submit eight 1964 killer Kennedy halves- all MintState, all with rainbow toning (even then I knew was tough to find on this breed of coin).
He wouldn't accept them.
Nope. He told me no Dealer with any self respect would submit "a bunch of common bullion halves" for grading.

That was a sad day in Numismatics for me.