Do PCGS and NGC ever "miss"....

1907Quarter

and give a slider coin an MS grade?

FC57Coins

You don't hear that very often - but I'm sure some pieces have to fall through the cracks. The more common occurrence I would venture is the opposite, where an MS piece gets an AU grade. I had a beautiful MS64FH SLQ that I sent to PCGS and received an AU58 grade on it. Not satisfied with that I sent it to NGC instead and got the MS64FH grade it deserved - go figure.

Frank

jom

<< <i>You don't hear that very often >>



You're right, I never hear that too often. But I SEE it all the time.

jom

kranky

I'm told that some pieces with a slight rub are slabbed as 61 and 62 because the coin will sell for 61 or 62 money. Scott Travers wrote about it in one of his books.

FC57Coins

<< <i>You're right, I never hear that too often. But I SEE it all the time >>



I guess if we didn't, these boards would be silent!

Frank

agentjim007

There are many MS60/61 coins in PCGS/NGC holders that will NEVER be cracked out for fear of an AU grade.



only thing feared more than an AU grade is reading my spelling (edited for spelling, well actually poor typing skills))

andy007

that's what market grading is all about, right

1907Quarter

So let's try this scenario. An otherwise excellent MS65 coin has just the slightest rub. Would the grading services grade it
a)MS64
b)AU-58
c)depends on the price spread
d)any of the above?!

Steve27

IMO they miss in both directions, but more often they call an MS coin an AU.

jom

1907Quarter: That is the jist of the basic auguement between "techincal" grading and "market" grading.

Ask yourself this: Does the "rub" (or whatever it is that makes it AU) really distract from the eye appeal of the coin? Frankly I see many "rubbed" coins that are worth far more than many MS63/64 graded coins. At that point it just comes down to what you want to pay. Fact is you simply can't catagorize many coins and these types of AU pieces are one of these. Grade doesn't necessarily equal quality.

jom

KlectorKid

harder to grade a coin is the more screw-ups there are like gold indians

Conder101

AU-58 bust halves are often slabbed as MS-63 because they will bring 63 money. PCGS even admits to it in their book.

clackamas

I see graded coins by ANACS all the time that are "MS-60" Now an MS 60 has to be a damn ugly coin and bordering on BB damaged but an MS65 slider IMO is worth more than most AU coins.

stman

Not sure if this is the same. I'm just getting into barber series.
Looked at an ms63 and au58. Liked the au58 much better for a start in the series. Probably paid 60 money for it.

Also I've always felt it a good idea when entering a new series to pick up a good slider so you know where the slight rub is.

stman

agentjim007

A real "slider" will not even show rub. A coin can have evidence of wear but not enough to show rub. When I had access to a stereo scope it was difficult to get even a super slider past me. When you know what to look for and you examine with a stereo scope even the slightest wear becomes obvious. You can buy nice stereo scopes for under $300 postaged paid. Highly recommended.

jom

If you need a microscope to see whatever rub there is the rub probably isn't bad enough to effect eye appeal. The bottom line is whether the coin is accepted in the market as whatever grade it is given. If it's worth MS63 money and it has been rubbed then it's still an MS63. If the rub has gotten to the point that it effects the eye appeal then it won't be worth 63 money hence it will have a lower grade. I realize this is "market grading" but that is how it works today....

jom

IndianHeadMan

I saw a PCGS ms64 Silver Washington at a shop this weekend and it had slide marks that the naked eye could see. Very ugly coin. It does happen

griffin6

While infrequently acknowledged, the services talk in house about what is called the "58 - 61(or 62) wheel." These are coins which display the characteristics that everyone is referring to... coins where the call between rub and wear is extremely difficult.

In case this got missed earlier, "rub" is the equivalent of a surface or bag mark that "happens" to be on a coin's high points. On a brilliant coin, it will still reflect luster (light) where wear would not, and wear on the high points is frequently supported by minor circulation marks in the fields. Needless to say, it is not the easiest call, and less so on toned coins. It is why coins may be called 58 one day and 61 or 62 another.

As an astute buyer, you want to look for coins of this quality being sold as AU-58, as they will generally bring a premium at auction, or may upgrade if resubmitted.

stman

griffin6, what you describe is exactly what I meant in my post above. Thanks

stman

Conder101

Sorry but to me contact marks or bag marks on the high points are still just contact marks and bagmarks. they are not wear and do not affect the grade unless they are severe or the marks are numerous enough to lower the eye appeal to reduce the MSgrade a notch. "Rub" is a cop-out term which means "I don't want to call this MS-XX coin an AU. To me "rub" or "friction" indicate wear vislible through loss of luster and a grade no higher than AU. That used to be how AU was defined "Light wear or rubbing on the high points." Now we have MS-64 with a "rub".

dorkkarl

does it really matter all that much??? certified grades are an opinoin, not a scientific, definite number. if you like a au-58 over a ms-62, GET THE AU COIN!!!

simple fact is that about 75% of the time, a slider bust coin looks way nicer than 60 or 61.

K S