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A Well Known Dealer Told Me This......

A well known national dealer I was talking to the other day who primarily deals in very high quality pieces and beautifully toned material told me this:

"Those individuals who are in the market right now seeking high end and/or high grade, low pop. material and who are looking at the greysheet prices are AT LEAST 8-12 months behind the REAL market. Dealers are having a very hard time right now finding choice material and often times are paying absurd prices to obtain these choice pieces at auction for their clients."

Do you agree??


Dragon

Comments

  • Dragon,

    For the type of material I like to collect and handle (high grade toned Morgans - which by definition are low pop), I'd say that's an accurate statement. I believe the prices realized at the upcoming Goldberg sale will bear that out. Most dealers and collectors will shake their heads.

    GSAGUY
    image
  • mdwoodsmdwoods Posts: 5,546 ✭✭✭
    I agree dragon. The key word was "choice'. I just paid 1/3 more for a SLQ, than I did for an identically graded coin (that I returned) , but one was marginal for the grade, the other was choice. It is tough to find real nice coins. Mark

    Actually, after doing the math, it was half again as much.
    National Register Of Big Trees

    We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    Agree. Collectors who insist on paying "greysheet" are missing the boat and are limiting themselves to substandard coins. "Choice" is just that; choice. Not easy to find.
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • "If you got it, flaunt it" Eye-appealling, attractive, low pop. massive crowd pleasing coins EITHER white or toned will DEMAND more than grey sheet ask to be added to collections. The right time at the right place, or using connections with dealers you have been loyal too, is a key to the current and future market. Dealers are in a position to reward the highest bidders with their best newps. Difference in tastes by buyers, will help place most "average" coins in many collectors sets, because certain buyers are too stubborn or ignorant to realize the "true supply and demand" of the current situation.
    Specializing in coins with "thin film interference" & "sulfur impregnated surfaces" due to hanging out with "old bags" and "wrappers"
  • I agree absolutely with the comment made. The statement doesn't only apply to toned coins either. Any coin with superb eye appeal will demand a premium in todays market. Especially with the advent of the internet where information about coins is growing at an incredible rate. Before the internet, people would buy sight unseen and what you got is what you got. Now I can say, I have seen an example on the net of the same date and grade that blows this coin away. More and more I see the coins generating the most excitement and therefore the most demand are the ones with jaw dropping eye appeal. There is no way one could expect to pay a listed price for these coins.

    My Barbers
  • NicNic Posts: 3,365 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very true. I attend most major auctions. Beginning around the last Elias. sale (4/97) the market for "great" coins has only continued to pick up steam, and broaden in what is considered "great". Many coins are bringing way over/ multiples of bid, and not just the upgrade candidates. As a collector/ investor I'm both happy and depressed! K
  • Sorry to say, greysheet has never accurately reflected the market, only the electronic high sight seen bids, and those can disappear very quickly The marketplace is volitile in many instances, and each series can have a apecialized pricing. Very nicely toned coins have a market unto their own and one really has to be on the bourse and in the auction to determine how much to pay. 10-20% above greysheet might sound like a lot of money, but, in reallity, it's a meaningless number when one finds the right coin. How much is 2 years worth of searching worth to a collector? Sometimes it's 20 times sheet.

    TRUTH O' MATIC
  • Agreed!

    Good post!

    Rusty.
  • 1jester1jester Posts: 8,637 ✭✭✭
    True. And I've always been willing to pay many multiples for a beautiful/rare coin. I suppose the market is set for a long-term rise in "grey sheet" prices.

    I guess this vindicates the long-term collectors who've always insisted on quality.

    imageimageimage

    PS: Buy while you still can!

    .....GOD
    image

    "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5

    "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    True to a point but I would add that the Greysheet has never been a reflection of the choicest coins and, as such, there is no time lag since there is a discontinuity in price vs quality! As an anectodal example, I like to think that I offer some very attractive coins that are solid for the grade and superior in eye appeal, however, I did not sell a single coin today at the show I did in NJ even though at least ten people loved my coins and made offers after seeing my prices. Why didn't I sell the coins? Well, I had to pay in excess of Greysheet for every single coin offered and each potential buyer was only willing to go to Greysheet Ask. Sorry, but to get the best material you have to be willing to pay for it most times.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • RonyahskiRonyahski Posts: 3,117 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Agree. You always have to pay more than greysheet for the best. I'd say greysheet is 3-4 months lagging in reflecting general market movements.

    Regards,
    Daryl
    Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,953 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The BU roll prices is one area (other than pre 1959 cents and pre 1962 nickels) that the greysheet has attempted to keep up with prices.

    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I used to stress watching the Graysheet.
    Ever since giving it up I sleep much better at nights.

    Sometimes too much information will kill you.
    Graysheet isn't telling me anything I really need to know.

    peacockcoins

  • Two questions

    Is this just in reference to the super high end stuff, for example MS67 Barber, Seated type, pop 1-5 type coins or are you guys saying whats highend for a grade IE: MS64/65 PQ stuff???

    With all the info I've heard about the booming market I've seen very little movement in the greysheet in the last 6 months. Are then far behind the times or is it that this reflects the lowest quality for the given grade and is still stuck at the old value

  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    coynclecter,

    The greysheet is for pricing 1881-S Morgans in MS65 and BU penny rolls and generic gold. When you're talking about DCAM Trade Dollars, beautifully toned material, eye appealing rare date coins, or high end ANYTHING, you can stick the greysheet on the bottom of a birdcage where it belongs.

    Dragon
  • michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭
    as usual dragon you always hit the nail on the head.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    in 35 years i have NEVER seen the greysheet buy a coin or sell a coin! also i have never seen the greysheet make an offer on a coin!!

    sincerely michael

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well michael, Now you have hit it right, but I will say I use greysheet only as a guide in some cases. All through the years I've always seen the dealers using it as their bible.

    Never letting you take a peek at it. So I like to refer to it as a starting point.

    stman
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • GilbertGilbert Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭
    The greysheet is a fine publication as long as you properly use it, and it seems to me that to complain about the greysheet for issues it isn't designed to address is a little absurd.

    I know, I know, so lets try to educate the folks who are misusing the publication, and stop blaming it on the publication.

    A side note: is it at all possible that some people's willingness to pay exorbitant prices merely perpetuate a market of unreasonable price merchandise. The coin market has its ups and downs just like every other non-essential market, and while its good its good, but somewhere along the line the bubble is going to burst. That is just the collector in me a little frustrated with the business of coins, and desirious of hearing about the enjoyment of coin collecting. image
    Gilbert
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Greysheet is a reasonable starting point for most commonly traded coins in average condition. It certainly no longer reflects what a premium 63 to 67 coin brings contrary to it's own written grading standards. And it appears that they have no interest in keeping up with the market other than in rolls, circs, and modern proofs. So I'm not really sure what their agenda is. It's a great tool for buyers to try and get something for less than it's worth (same comment for the blue sheet). For every Tom B. that is well informed on prices there are 9 less informed sellers that figure the sheet is in fact truth.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold

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