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Anyone used NCS on copper yet???

DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
in PCGS Set Registry Forum
I saw this picture on the NCS site. Being mindful of the delicate nature of copper coins, I was wondering if anyone had actually used this service yet?

I have been on previous threads regarding the pros and cons of "conservation," so that is NOT the question I am asking.

Doug

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    pontiacinfpontiacinf Posts: 8,915 ✭✭
    i have a beautiful 79 type 2 lincoln with a big doody on his chin, and also a 1853 large cent at ncs right now.

    I will post results
    image

    Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
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    boiler78boiler78 Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have sent several proof IH cents to them with great results on the copper nickel coins but I think they are very cautious on bronze. They don't want too many pink slugs crawling around.
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    DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    I submitted three dcam coins with spoocthy dark toning, and they opted not to conserve. I'd be curious about any results too.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I forgot to attach the "after" picture. Sorry.
    Doug
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    littlewicherlittlewicher Posts: 1,822 ✭✭
    I sent in some nice Large Cents. They wouldn't conserve them.image


    For some life lasts a short while, but the memories it holds last forever.
    -Laura Swenson

    In memory of BL, SM, and KG. 16 and forever young, rest in peace.
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    pontiacinfpontiacinf Posts: 8,915 ✭✭
    WELL i also with my cents sent in a seated dime 1853 arrows au58 or better...toned black
    image

    Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
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    mdwoodsmdwoods Posts: 5,526 ✭✭✭
    I have some coppers with black specks at NCS right now. I don't know if they will do anything or not. If they do, I will update the forum. Mark
    National Register Of Big Trees

    We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
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    johnkjohnk Posts: 394
    I have some in NCS I will post result when I get them back.
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    MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I have some coppers with black specks at NCS right now. >>



    If the specs are carbon spots, I don't think they can be removed. If they do I would really like to see the results!!
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

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    LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,294 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I sent a dirty 1858 pattern ANACS 61 with alot of crud around the devieces. It came back a nice looking, crud free P62 from NGC. There were no spots though and it's a CN cent - looking on with interest if anyone has had experience with bronze.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
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    shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    Here's 2 before/after samples Boiler78 shared a while back. Page 1, Page 2. And Lakesammmans's 1858 pattern.
    Paul <> altered surfaces <> CoinGallery.org
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    STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    Shylock - Has NCS told anyone what they did ? or what they put on these coins ? or is it a secret and we have to guess ?

    Stewart
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    shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    It's a secret and we have to guess, but I'd be very curious to watch. I have a feeling you work mostly in bronze Stewart -- you may have a better idea than anyone.
    Paul <> altered surfaces <> CoinGallery.org
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    IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,738 ✭✭✭
    Stewart all you have to do is go across the street ask the question in a forum called ask NGC, my guess is that they will respond as they always do. Them may not divulge trade secrets, but they will respond.
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I ordered an information packet from NCS. I have couple of proof Lincolns that are basically second tier because of haze. I can't see any significant marks under the haze and think they could be beautiful coins. Their sample pics looks basically like haze removal. They are not worth a whole lot in their current state (negative eye appeal), so I am probably going to send them in.

    I'm also going to send one in with a nasty little carbon spot right above the date and see what happens. I'll post before and after photos too.
    Doug
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stewart, what is your experience with removing haze? You would apparently know the most about interaction with bronze.

    By the way, I'm glad you have instigated a Proof Lincoln showdown. I have been languishing over a half dozen coins that are not in my registry set, and I am getting off my duff and doing something about it. I have a 39 in 66red -- but. I think the frost is adquate to gain the respect of a CAM desgnation. I've sent it once, and came back the same (although they kept it for awhile giving me impression they were considering it. Imagine the deflation when I read the score on-line.

    I think I am going to bring it to LB and let someone eyeball it and look me in the eyeball when they try to say it is not a CAM.
    Doug
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    IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,738 ✭✭✭
    I got a reply from the grade finalizer at NGC, he gave me two names to contact at NCS. If anyone has any specific questions about copper just PM them to me. I will call them tomorrow, I too am curious about what they do to copper.
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    clackamasclackamas Posts: 5,615 ✭
    I bet they use something like MS70 on the coins and wash them in distilled water. I can't be too expensive since the cost is so low for cheap coins. Many times old copper seems to have grime from the original paper rolls left on it and is easily removed with MS-70. I still don't have the guts to do it with an expensive coin but do have some early 30's Lincolns that were upgraded a point by cracking and treating with MS70. One thing I have found is that do not use it with early, even pre 40, "S" mint Lincolns. The copper alloys used by early "s" mints is sometimes more bronze colored than normal copper and treated coins do not look good when treated with MS-70, they can look fake/recolored. I will admit that I have not submitted and "s" mints that I have treated because they were mostly low end MS to begin with but with a good "D" or "P" mint alloy they can be cleaned.

    Do not hold me accountable for this. If you do this by yourself and your coin gets toasted and lands in a BB it is not my fault.
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    STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    Does NCS GUARANTEE their work on copper ? What if your coin comes out worse after they (conserve) it and you're unhappy ? How long will their work stay stabile ? Does NCS tell you what they use and why are they better than the coin doctor at my local coin show ?

    At least after you buy a coin and you don't like it , you can always blame yourself and then you learn and grow.

    NCS should offer a seminar in the conservation of coins and take away the "DARK SIDE" of conservation. After all NCS is the conservation service of the ANA.

    Stewart
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    boiler78boiler78 Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stewart,
    Why would NCS want to "enlighten" us and put themselves out of business in the process?
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    STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    Clackamas-

    If you use ms 70 on certain copper coins,it will turn them purple.If you ask anyone who doodles with copper they will ALL have a story about coins that got ruined.I find it IMPOSSIBLE to believe the Professionals at NCS (Dave Camire and company)have not ruined any coins. Spots that are above the surface can be flicked off but any carbon or verdigris that is into the surface is not coming off without stripping the surface

    Doug - Send the coin(1939) in designation review and write a note on the invoice asking WHY the coin is not a cameo?My experience regarding haze on proof is that in order to remove it one has to strip the surface and remove the original skin.The coin would then begin to retone and good luck because you need it

    Gold - the easiest metal to fix
    Silver - some sucessful results in conservation from stripping and then retoniong
    Copper nickel - can be dipped buy the original skin is gone and the coin will become lighter.I can usually tell a dipped copper nickel and I'm afraid because of stability of the color
    Nickel - can be conserved BUT ?
    Copper - the most difficult metal to conserve.You can NEVER be 100% sucessful.Only the flicking off of above the surface carbon is recommended by a professional spot remover

    It is a fact that grading services will grade dipped gold,silver,and copper nickel.However they will put dipped copper in a body bag.

    Stewart
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