GREYSHEET PRICING

TWODOGS

I can't help but laugh. A lot of people seem to think that they should be able to buy all their coins at Greysheet Bid, but laugh at you when you ask them to sell their coins at Greysheet Ask. Why the elitist double standard?

If this thread ticks you off, you are probably one of those people.

tjkillian

That's an easy one: Coin Collectors collect coins and really don't want to part with the coins they've bought. Say you buy a coin for $100.00. That means you'd rather have the coin then $100.00. If greysheet ask is $110.00, the collector is being asked to sell something that he'd/she'd rather have then the $110.00. Many folks regard the greysheet as the actual buying price of coins. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not.

Tom

TWODOGS

Tom,
I completely agree when the person is a collector. I have coins myself that I wouldn't sell for a substantial sum above the most inflated value out there. I'm talking about the people that are buying and selling. I understand that profit is the goal. BUT among members of this board, I want to understand WHY some think they deserve Greysheet pricing when buying, but NOT when selling.

dorkkarl

the greysheet don't mean diddly for nice coins. fine for generic stuff, though. try to buy an 1801 bust half at anything remotely close to greysheet . .. .

K S

Elcontador

Dorkkarl is correct. Greysheet is a good price indicator for coins that are actively traded. The 1881 S Morgan in MS 65 is a good example of this. I'd even say ditto re the 1909 S VDB cent, as they are always available.

However, when you are getting into really scarce attractive coins, you can throw it away. Greysheet doesn't cover coins in MS 66, but the seller can virtually name his price for a really nice PCGS MS 66 Liberty Nickel, or an attractively toned MS 66 Seated Half.

Pushkin

Show me where I can buy nice Indian Head cents at anything near Greysheet Ask and I'll buy a bunch. The problem I have is many dealers want to buy at Bid- but won't come close to selling at Ask (they want Ask++). I'd like to laugh, but that has been my experience for years.

Example: 1877 IHC in XF: I have never found a dealer willing to sell at Ask. I can give you a lot more examples if you would like some more laughs. Yet I've had at least six dealers offer to buy the same coin at 20% to 25% below Bid! It works both ways.

TWODOGS

pushkin,
Exactly my point. I am just trying to understand what the mentality is that certain members exhibit. That THEIR possession of a coin greatly enhances the value in dealings between members.

Expecting Greysheet Bid when buying from one member, and trying to resell to another member at an inflated price ABOVE Greysheet ASK. How is the double standard justified?

Pushkin

There is NO justification for the double standard. But I can't find dealers that willl even follow a single standard (same probably applies to many collectors). So we all follow the "law of the jungle".

However, my experience with the Greysheet is that it is used by dealers as an excuse to lowball - maybe others have had differrent experiences. Anyway, I almost never sell to dealers anymore - I sell on Ebay or to collectors I know and let the market, not the Greysheet, determine value.

No excuses intended.

keets

it's a combination of greed and PQitis.

al h.

shirohniichan

The dealer I buy coins from most often buys below bid and sells at ask (sometimes less). The reason I notice this is because I've only bought common, modern US coins from him. If I tried to buy rare coins from him the pricing would change. He's offered me over "retail" for some coins! Of course, those were ones I wouldn't part with.

If a dealer has a ready buyer he can pay more for certain coins. If you offer him things he normally doesn't deal in his buy prices will be really low. An honest dealer has to calculate his risk and price accordingly.

walkerman

I don't think it's really a double standard so much as it is other factors. When I'm set up at a show I'm offered any variety and multitude of coins.If a coin is really pq the seller asks for and I will pay over greysheet bid. Sometimes even ask if I really need the coin and know I have a buyer who will pay over ask for a high end coin.Conversely many would be sellers have common date coins that are solid enough for the grade but are as common as grass and maybe I've got some in inventory.I catch a lot of flack when I say I'm not too interested and that if I buy them they might sit in my inventory a long time .Therefore my offer is likely to be below sheet and unattractive.I recently bought a deal of 10 peace dollars in pcgs ms64.I paid the asking price of $27 per coin. Some were ok for the grade,some were solid and some were right next to the next higher grade.So I listed some for $29,some for $35 and some for $40 and above.They all sold right away and the buyers were apparently happy even they all paid different prices for a ms 64 coin.The grey sheet is the only accurate guide we have to get some kind of ball park figures that make it possible for the market to operate.It should never be taken to mean the prices listed are written in stone. A substantial amount of my sales are to other dealers who will always pay me somewhere between bid and ask depending on the quality and their needs. When I need to unload excessive inventory that are mostly generic coins that wouldn't excite anyone,I'm thankful to find a dealer who will take them off my hands and I don't expect to get grey sheet bid.Just the reverse of the position I explained above where I was the buyer.This is just one dealer's assessment and input and I would like to hear some others. Dave W

TWODOGS

I have an established dealer here in AZ. that I have done about 15 thousand dollars worth of business with in the past couple of years. He respects the fact that I am trying to make a buck and on most things, he sells to me between Bid and Ask. There are however certain items that move SO well in his shop that I do have to pay more for them. He has a lot more overhead than I do, so I REALLY appreciate it when he allows me enough room to make about what he does on the sale.

When he has bought modern coins, Proof Sets, Mint Sets and the like, he has also thrown away the Greysheet on many occasions. He has shown me respect in all of our dealings. The transactions have been mutually rewarding and there has been no double standard. I guess I am lucky as far as that goes.

dorkkarl

not so sure about a double standard. i think the greysheet has a disclaimer that it is strictly for dealer-to-dealer transation, doesn't it? seems like i read in it once something about it not to be used by retail customers.

regarding the choice rare coins, too, things like "trends" and "redbook" mean squat, too. i've paid way over "trends" for super choice copper, for example, and have even sold the same to dealers for trends or more. doesn't happen that often, though.

bottom line: i don't think greysheet is meant to be fair dealer-to-cust, just d-to-d.

K S

TWODOGS

Dorkkarl,
That's right. There IS a disclaimer. But that's exactly what I'm talking about. THERE IS a double standard here on these boards. It is not apparent with most members, as a lot are just collectors and aren't using their hobby to also make money.

It is among those like myself, that not only collect but are trying to make a dollar or two at something they enjoy, that I have firsthand, witnessed this double standard. On a couple of occasions. There are a few I won't deal with again because they whine and want the coins at Greysheet, but in return, when you want something from them, forget Greysheet.

Pushkin

Twodogs,

I think you make a good point about the whiners. There are a few top-line dealers that I do business with on IHCs and FEs where we essentually don't negotiate. We respect each other enough to ask/offer what we think is fair, and it rarely goes beyond that. But again, I deal with a very small subset of dealers that specialize in IHCs/FEs.

I must say my experience with some dealers has been abysmal and I simply won't ever do business with them. Perhaps dealers at shows should wear buttons that say (NO WHINING) and collectors buttons that say (NO LOWBALLING).

I believe ethical dealers have every right to expect a decent profit.

Bottom line: Greysheet is a guide, for some coins its a good one, for others its useless.

coynclecter

Well TWODOGS, you too want to sell at a higher price than you bought at. Isn't that a double standard. Whether they use greysheet bid/ask or not, anyone who buys at one price to sell higher is using a double standard. You have chosen to use the greysheet as your guide, others choose not to. You also have to remember that there are those who think everything they own is a premium coin because they own it. They didn't pay premium but they want one when selling. Sooner or later they find a buyer who pays premium and this justifies thier action.

I find I rarely get more than Bid on my coins so I rarely pay more than BID + 10%. I stopped trying to argue, I just pass. I have found it is rare that you recover any major premium over bid except on more hard to find items and generally they are more difficult to find a buyer for. Often they go to auction where the fees are extreme and they sometimes get overlooked.

I have a lot of average coins for the grade and some real premium coins. If I am unhappy with what I find at the grade I'm shopping, rather than pay 50-100% premium for a choice piece I'd rather buy one grade up. Much easier to get my money back.

BTW

I too have a large list of dealers with nice coins whose tables I just walk by. I know they sell retail. Why waste my time.

Coyn

TWODOGS

coynclecter,
I'm not talking about making a profit, or not. That's what it's all about, if you are buying and selling. The double standard I am talking about is wanting certain guidelines when buying from a person and NOT FOLLOWING THE SAME GUIDELINES WHEN SELLING TO THAT VERY SAME PERSON.

We're not talking about anything out of the ordinary here. Just common mid-grade uncirculated coins. Double standard, plain and simple.

Wisconsin

I hear what you are saying. My main business is antiques, and I can work well with some dealers and not with others. You just have to choose who you deal with and who you don't. A lot of people travel down one way streets. They want a greatly discounted price when they buy and give no discount back when selling. I get extremely frustrated at people some times. I believe in working back and forth and hoping for the same decent treatment I give people. I used to sell to one person that always insists on beating me into the ground for a low price, but when they get something I can use for a client they simply say " I am not in the business to make you money". It is their choice I sapose. I know we all know people like this. If I sell a dealer something, I am more than happy to hear they made money. If they did, they are more likely to buy more, and that is what keeps everything going.

BigD5

I think it really depends on the coins being sold. If they are coins that a particular dealer feels they can move, they will be more aggressive with their offers. If they can't, or don't feel that they can move the material, the offer suffers. It doesn't really mean the coins are "bad", just not attractive, in a selling sense, to a particular dealer. The last show I attended, I sold an 1892 barber dime, pcgs ms/63 for $140 to a dealer. What's bid, $115 or so? All depends on the coin and the particular dealer.
I'm always bringing coins to my local shows to sell to dealers. I don't find much rhyme or reason to what consistently sells, other than if the coin is nice, most of the dealers at the show will be HAPPY to pay for the coin, if the price is reasonable, and reasonable isn't under bid. Of course, there are some consistent lowballers out there, but it's the same with collectors. Some buy for price only, some take other things into account, and may be willing to pay more for a bit more quality.