Proof 70, my patootie.
Russ
Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
Anybody else think this is a grade guarantee candidate? I have three of these in 69DCAM (one listed on eBay, BTW
). None of mine have any of those cool spots in the field. Maybe that's why they didn't make 70?
Russ, NCNE
). None of mine have any of those cool spots in the field. Maybe that's why they didn't make 70?Russ, NCNE
0
Comments
<< <i>Why, the only way to get a 70 is to buy one already made. These all sell for multiples of a nicer 69. I would bet that 99% of the buyers of 70's are buying the plastic, and really don't care what the coin looks like. Taking this coin off the market will only upset all of these buyers. >>
You may be right to a point. I purchased an PR70DC SBA a couple of months ago. I too fell under the illusion that a coin graded that high must be spectacular. It arrived and much to my dissappointment it had several marks about an 1/8 inch long on the obverse. I really wanted a pr70 coin alot. But it was shipped back the next day. Undaunted, I found another one about a month later. After many e-mails, I bought it. I awaited it`s arrival with as much trepidation as excitement. Opened the package and there it was. A naked eye no spots, no hazing,fully frosted, even the moon is strong, SBA. Thanks Wayne Herndon. I think that what people will accept has alot to do with their income. I work a physically demanding construction job and am not getting rich. So what extra income I have is not parted with easily. I am very picky, much to the consternation of several dealers I am sure. But if I get a coin that is what it should be IMHO, I am very loyal to the seller and he can accept not a rich client but a long and steady one. But yes there are people out there that buy the plastic. Even as a rookie I just can`t quite grasp this method of collecting. The only reasons I can come up with is plenty of money and the desire to have the number 1 rated set. Number 1 ranked, not necessarily the top looking set. That coin is not even a 68 IMHO
Or if PCGS has to eat enough of these PR70 coins and their profits suffer enough, then maybe they will pick a grading standard and stick to it.
<< <i>Unless those are reflections of something from the photo process.... >>
They're not. Reflections don't manifest as spots. I'd guess, though (benefit of the doubt time) that the spots emerged after the coin was slabbed. There is also a remote possibility that those are dings in the slab, but I don't think so. The pattern indicates to me that they are on the coin, not the plastic.
Russ, NCNE
At least the standard "Brilliant; Frosted; well struck; lustrous; nice contrast" description matches this time! Except for the common mis-use of "lustrous".
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>I have a lot more confidence in the assessment provided by the grading team at PCGS >>
Good one. We needed a little humor.
Russ, NCNE
I wouldn't assume anything the other direction either. There are some coins out there in PR70 holders that leave you scratching your head. In fact if the spots in this photo are on the coin, unfortunately it wouldn't be the worst example out there.
Their ability to assess the coin is well known around here. They suck and give the same 'assessment" for every single coin they sell. " Brilliant; Frosted; well struck; lustrous; nice contrast". This is even true for the mint state coins.
there has to be atleast 1 boardwalk(legally)
and someone will buy the holder its nuts(spotty coin)
my dad always said
a very true statement he made! that now i remember alot of things he tried to teach me but i was always too dumb to listen.
An open mind will support transformation.
Recognize life is full of change
and celebrate the opportunity.
"There is always a way to collect,Never surrender the hobby"
1. Those are sneeze spots on the holder and Cameo CC didn't catch it on the images before posting. (this gets my vote)
or
2. The 70 equals the number of distracting spots grown on the coin since slabbing.
Just when was the last time you had a PCGS PR-70 DCAM Kennedy at auction? The last time I checked your auctions you were trying to push a bunch of common date PR-65 (whew...pretty rare stuff!) Franklins trying to claim that since they were in the OLD holder they were of a more strict grading practice. That shameful claim was long ago laid to rest! You also had a number of '69 PR-66 Kennedy coins that couldn't even make the DCAM grade. C'mon....
CameoCC is way too often extremely high with their cost and you have to negotiate a more reasonable cost. However, the quality of the coins is strong. Just because an Ebay seller uses the same adjectives to describe their PR-69/70 DCAM coins, doesn't in any way suggest they are purposely selling poor quality coins. It CERTAINLY doesn't mean they suck!
<< <i>The last time I checked your auctions you were trying to push a bunch of common date PR-65 >>
That's strange. The last time I checked Greg's auctions, he had one of the most stunning 1969 PR69DCAM Kennedy's I've ever seen.
I'll tell you what, when it comes to Greg and DCAM Kennedys, you are WAY out of your league. Best if you just moved on before you get your ass handed to you by everybody here who knows the quality of the stuff he has.
Russ, NCNE
mo <><
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<< <i>If we only knew the identity of the grader on this coin we kennedy people could specify that only he grade our coins. >>
Not possible. He died in 1998.
Russ, NCNE
Oh wait a minute, that was Greg Margulies(gmarguli)
I doubt it's possible to find out who graded a coin. I'm just assuming that the PR70 guy died in 1998 since that's the last time PCGS was granting the grade in the Kennedy series.
Russ, NCNE
Would that be the same gmarguli who's comment about the seller of the coin in question, CameoCC, was "they suck"? The reason they"suck"? Well, they are sooooo terrible that they use the same adjectives to describe numerous coins. Wow! Perhaps, you should go back and read through the thread. They don't deserve such an attack for such a trivial matter!
<< <i>Their ability to assess the coin is well known around here. They suck and give the same 'assessment" for every single coin they sell. " Brilliant; Frosted; well struck; lustrous; nice contrast". >>
bit different than what u said. they describe them all the same, whatever sounds the best thats what hes saying not that they dont have a very large vocabulary so they suck.
I got over my need for PR70 DCAM coins long ago. In fact, I got over my need for any post-1964 US coins. But I will admit that an unsneezed-on DCAM is a sight to behold. (And I ain't knockin' those of you who collect Moderns. I used to. I just lost interest, personally.)
I'm glad you checked my auctions. Next time bid if you wish to comment on the quality. Practically everything I sell on eBay is stuff that either didn't make the grade, super common stuff, or stuff I purchased slabbed and just want to get rid of. My nice stuff goes directly to collectors. The PR65 Franklins were from a lot I purchased from another forum member (wondercoin). I put a couple on eBay to see how they would sell. I wholesaled a bunch of them for higher prices than I got on eBay, but I will admit that my last bunch of auctions didn't do well.
As for the "shameful claim" that these coins were graded more strict because they were in the OLD holder, that is true. If you knew anything about coins you would know this. HOWEVER, I made the claim that they were PQ. I assume you, Mr. Proof Franklin Authority, were able to tell from the scans that they were not PQ for the grade? Let me quote you from an earlier post "And your self-proclaimed ability to "grade by scan" certainly provides that humor!". Can you say hypocrite?
As for the 1969-S Kennedys that didn't make the DCAM grade. The NGC coins were very borderline and I submitted them to test what it would take to get a DCAM. I had about 25 NGC coins that were in one test batch. FYI, I found them to be just as strict as PCGS on the CAM/DCAM grading. Also, sadly many of the coins came back with haze which limited their grades. However, grades were not even considered when I submitted them. I didn't even bother grading the coins. Just the CAM/DCAM aspects of it. I don't have a clue where the PCGS PR66/67 coins came from.
If you had done even some minor digging you would have found some of my PCGS Kennedys in the last month or so. In one submission I made about 5% of the 1969-S PR69DCAM. 12 of 13 coins got that grade with the other getting PR68DCAM. I won't even mention the 1971-D in MS68 that I made and sold for quite probably the second highest price ever for a Kennedy. I know Kennedys.
As for CameoCC. Any seller that uses the exact same description for all their coins without regard to the coin itself is not a reputable dealer in my opinion. It's clearly not true with many of their coins, unless you wish to defend them and argue that mint state coins are nicely frosted with contrast.
In short, they suck. When they stop lying about their coins and use accurate descriptions or none at all, then maybe they'll stop sucking.
Trust the people on this board. If you don't know what to trust or believe, go and research.
B.
A Tax is a fine for doing good.