Set Breakdown - 1954 Wilson Franks

qmayer · August 26, 2002 11:15AM

1954 Wilson Franks

Sounds like a very difficult set to build. Only 20 cards and almost impossible to find without stains...

mikeschmidt · August 26, 2002 12:10PM

Nice article -- but I thought that at the very least something needs to be mentioned on this set re: centering. Since the borders on these cards are probably the smalled of any baseball card every -- they are frequently O/C at best, and Miscut at worst. Absolutely horrible to find centered -- combined with the other factors makes this set something special to reckon with.

MS

RedHeart54 · August 26, 2002 1:13PM

There's quite a few in Superior's latest auction. There's a PSA 6 Feller, PSA 7 Campanella, and PSA 8s of Pafko, Jablonski, and McMillan. There's also a few others ranging from PSA 3 to 7. I imagine these will do pretty well.

TheCARDKid · August 26, 2002 1:49PM

Mr Mint had quite a find of '54 Wilson's. Did all of those make their way into PSA holders? A PSA 9 Ted Williams would be one the holy grails of the post war era in any sport.

mikeschmidt · August 26, 2002 8:44PM

There are no PSA 9's of the Williams card. There are four PSA 8's -- and I believe that the last one sold for approximately $50,000. BMW Sports has an outstanding offer of $30,000 for any example to grade out at SGC 8.

Whereas in most sets of the 1950s, set builders may "start" at PSA 7/PSA 8 and upgrade to 9's when possible -- the Wilson Weiners set is a set where PSA 7 / PSA 8 would be the pinnacle of the collecting hobby.

MS

murcerfan · August 26, 2002 10:27PM

Nice little write-up, but by posting pics of reprints, perhaps unwary collectors using your post as a "source" will be duped into believing they are buying the real McCoy the next time fakes come around on e-bay. I will send you scans of the real cards if you e-mail me at architec@primelink1.net.

Anybody want to share thier thoughts on '71 Topps Greatest Moments, I am considering taking on that set and figure a bunch of you '70's collectors must have these and can shed some light on them for me.

LuxuryWines · August 26, 2002 10:54PM

Murcerfan,

I agree with you that regional issues are vastly ignored by many in the hobby... And that the 54 Wilson Weiners are probably the pinnacle of the regional sets.

However your swipe at 70 Kellogg's and 72 Topps Collectors is unjustified... SO those sets are easier than what you collect... I happen to collect cards of sets that I either like the design, the composition of the set or perhaps a memory of an era. I collect the 70's Kellogg's because they are different than most issues and they have a simple pure design to them. I also happen to love the 72's (Although I am not working on a PSA graded set), because it was my first major year buying baseball cards and have always liked the in action cards .... Yes the cards are more plentiful than 54 Wilson's but that does not diminish the beauty or collectabilty of the set....

thegemmintman · August 26, 2002 11:04PM

<< <i>Well.......... I guess we can't all be Girl Scouts collecting 1970 Kelloggs or '72 Topps (both of which have a near endless supply of wharehoused vending). >>

Murcerfan - why do you find it necessary to be insulting? Anyway you don't know know what you're talking about with regards to the '70 Kellogg's. They were never issued in a vending box. They came out of the cereal box, you could get a set from the company, and they came in 6 card cellos. Yes they are plentiful, but this adds to their popularity for many collectors. Some people actually like to collect cards that can be found. Wow, there's a novel thought.

rbeaton · August 26, 2002 11:19PM

Some of us even like to collect the cards we had as kids. So, how exactly does this make me a girl scout??

Robert

waitilltheytrytosell · August 26, 2002 11:29PM

I wish they would take some of that Girl Scout cookie money and start investing it in some vintage cards.

1954 · August 26, 2002 11:53PM

HERE IS AN INTERESTING THOUGHT... WHAT SET FROM 1952 TO PRESENT CAN NOT BE DONE IN A STRAIGHT PSA 8, PSA 7, PSA 6, PSA 5, PSA 4, PSA 3, PSA 2, OR PSA 1? FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW THIS, THERE ARE ONLY TWO PSA 9'S FROM THE WILSON FRANKS SET. BOTH ARE FELLERS, SO GOOD LUCK IN FINDING THE OTHER 19 IN PSA 9'S.

THIS IS THE TOUGHEST SET TO BUILD/FIND IN THE HOBBY MEN. THERE ARE FIVE CARDS IN THE SET THAT HAVE NOT FOUND THERE WAY INTO A PSA 8 HOLDER, AND PROBABLY NEVER WILL. A STAN HACK HAS NEVER BEEN GRADED HIGHER THAN A PSA 5, SO THAT ELIMINATES ANYONE TRYING TO BUILD A SET BETTER THAN A PSA 6. WHEN MAKING THIS SET, YOU WOULD BE LUCKY TO FIND THEM AT ALL.

MIKE SCHMIDT MAKES A GREAT POINT WITH REGARDS TO THE CENTERING OF THESE. 98% OF THESE ARE OFF CENTERED. I SPOKE WITH PSA AT THE NATIONALS ABOUT THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE. I WOULD PREFER TO HAVE A PSA 8OC THAN A PSA 7. WHY? THE REASON WOULD BE THAT THE CARD PRESENTS AND HAS QUALITIES OF A PSA 8 AND CARDS BEING OFF CENTERED IS THE NORMAL WAY OF LIFE FOR THESE. CARDS THAT HAS A (OC) OR (MC) DESIGNATION SHOULD RECEIVE LARGER PREMIUMS THAN THAT OF A LOWER GRADE. THIS IS MY OPINION, AND I BELIEVE THE OPINION OF ANYONE COLLECTING THIS SET. TO FIND A CARD LACKING STAINING AND ROUNDED CORNERS IS RARE. I BELIEVE PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO MAKE THIS SET NOT BECAUSE OF THE DESIGN, BUT BECAUSE OF THE COST ASSOCIATED WITH IT AND THE DIFFICULTY THAT GOES WITH IT.

1954

mikeschmidt · August 26, 2002 11:59PM

Shane:

For the same reason -- collectors avoid the 1914 Cracker Jack set in droves, whereas the 1915 Cracker Jack set is one of the finest printed.

And the 1914 Cracker Jack Mathewson is a very special pre-war HOF card that few have ever even seen...

waitilltheytrytosell · August 27, 2002 1:03AM

THIS IS THE TOUGHEST SET TO BUILD/FIND IN THE HOBBY MEN.

Wilson's are certainly a challenge to find in higher grades, but in any grade, all cards are obtainable. You want a set? Check the current Sportscards Plus auction. You want to assemble a set? Call a dozen or so top dealers. You want to assemble a PSA 7 or 8 set, now you've got yourself a battle, especially when the current pop says you can't have it. There are lots of sets/issues that are far more difficult to obtain in ANY condition. Wilson's are popular because they look like regular Topps cards, and they are obtainable.

mikeschmidt · August 27, 2002 1:09AM

Personally -- I like Wilson's because of the cool yellow background (a la Del Ennis), but, more importantly, I love the package of hot dogs on each card! What a cool marketing idea/innovation -- it really sticks out in every collector's mind.

In terms of availability -- they are a lot more available than many issues. Between the set offered by ScP, the high-grade commons offered by ScP, the inventory in Levi's store and the sheet that was just sold in Mastro, these cards are much more available than certain other issues.

Consider the Glendale Tigers set -- a bunch of nobodies, really, and the set just sold for about $230- or so per card! At least most of the Wilson players are name players -- even if they aren't all HOFers

zardoz51 · August 27, 2002 1:20AM

On behalf of The Girl Scouts Of America, I would like to state that despite the joviality between us and the 70 vs. 71 palaver that is generated, we have never resorted to insulting other collectors no matter what they collect. I'm sorry that my Kelloggs and 72T's are plentiful in comparison to your weiners, gee, I guess that makes me less of a collector than you.

I shudder to think of how you regard any collectors of modern, non-sport, or anything that doesn't carry a large price tag.

murcerfan · August 27, 2002 1:44AM

sorry about the girl scout reference, it was meant to be humorous.
I assume your quote about 1970 kelloggs cards "ruling the universe" was in the same vein.
I certainly got a laugh reading it. I love all this stuff and all collectors of all things... everywhere

thegemmintman · August 27, 2002 1:44AM

Murcerfan - apology accepted.

Yes of course the Masters of the Universe comment was intended to be funny. Mikeschmidt actually came up with it first as a reference to all Kellogg's collectors. It just sort of caught on with us.

FB · August 27, 2002 1:51AM

I'll admit it...

72's aren't really tough. But, I like em and thats enough for me...

P.S. - you can keep insulting the Kellogg's guys if you like...

thegemmintman · August 27, 2002 1:53AM

Too late FB. You already admitted that you're a closet Kellogg's freak

.

zardoz51 · August 27, 2002 2:12AM

No problem Murcerfan

Take all the cheap shots at the 72 guys that you want.

They really are a strange bunch with their revolting initiations etc.

murcerfan · August 27, 2002 2:45AM

Hey, I collected all of these sets as a kid and one of My all time favorite cards is #699 from the '72 set, I will even offer up double SMR for it in a psa 9. And I grab slabbed Yankees from the set all the time. But my favorite Murcer card is from the 1969 NY Boy Scouts issue (now that's pretty darn rare), I don't know if the Girl Scouts ever issued cards, but I would bet they would have been 3-ds if so.

thegemmintman · August 27, 2002 3:07AM

In case you don't know it, Bobby Murcer is one of the 75 cards in the '70 Kellogg's set. You really need to get one of these in PSA 9. You won't regret it.

Anyway the Murcer card from the '69 NY Boy Scouts issue is actually a reprint from the '68 Brownie's Handsome Hunks Collection

.

1954 · August 27, 2002 4:22AM

WAITTOYOUTRYTOSELL-
I WILL TAKE YOU UP ON YOUR OFFER. PLEASE EMAIL ME BACK WITH THE DEALERS THAT HAVE SOME OF THESE IN MID GRADE. I WILL BE GLAD TO PAY YOU A FINDERS FEE. AFTER FIVE HOURS OF NOT FINDING ANY AND SPENDING $75 ON LONG DISTANCE FEES, REPLY TO THE MESSAGE BOARD.

ALSO, WAITTOYOUTRYTOSELL. HAVE YOU SEEN THE WILSON WEINERS SET THAT SPORTSCARDSPLUS HAS IN THEIR AUCTION? THIS SET IS VERY HARD TO ACCUMULATE, HOWEVER ONLY ONE CARD IN THE WHOLE SET WILL GRADE A PSA 6 OR HIGHER. MAYBE THREE CARDS WOULD GRADE PSA 3, HOWEVER THE REST IS ALL PSA 1. DO YOU THINK THAT IS NICE??? IF THE SET WAS REALLY A NICE SET, DON'T YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE HAD IT GRADED???? IT IS REAL EASY TO CALL A CARD A CERTAIN GRADE WHEN YOU ARE THE ONLY GRADER.

QMAYER- GREAT ARTICLE AND INFORMATION. THANKS FOR DOING THIS. THE SET REGISTRY REALLY WORKS GREAT WHEN TRUE, VALUABLE INFORMATION IS SHARED.

1954

FB · August 27, 2002 5:23AM

Murcerfan,

Good luck on the 72 #699 in PSA 9. If I'm not mistaken, the SMR was just raised to $40 for 72 PSA 9 6th series commons. Double that would be $80. My guess is that when the next one hits eBay, you'll need to go 3x SMR in order to have a shot at it. I know a few folks collecting the 72 set that will throw some pretty nice cash at it when one shows up again.

I'm just lucky that I have mine already...

waitilltheytrytosell · August 27, 2002 6:25AM

1954 - What offer are you talking about? My reply was based on your comments - THIS IS THE TOUGHEST SET TO BUILD/FIND IN THE HOBBY MEN. and WHEN MAKING THIS SET, YOU WOULD BE LUCKY TO FIND THEM AT ALL. My reply simply stated in "any grade" the cards are obtainable. If you interpreted this to mean cards are plentiful in all gradesl, I am sorry for the confusion and the loss of $75. By "any grade" I meant - any shape, regardless of condition, just an example - that sort of "any grade". I feel badly about your $75. Please deduct the $75 from my finder's fee for this incredible buying opportunity - Incredible Buying Opportunity Based on your experiences, I think you can understand the importance of this future Cooperstown item.

zardoz51 · August 27, 2002 6:58AM

Waituntil

Thank you for sharing that "Incredible Opportunity" with us. Having read the seller's terms and conditions, not only would I never do business with that idiot but I would, in all probability, physically assault and hospitalize him for the good of the hobby, hell for the good of society in general.

NickM · August 27, 2002 7:16AM

No questions are necessary - not even the one about "Where did you learn to spell?"

Nick

1954 · August 27, 2002 7:20AM

THANK YOU ZARDOZ.. WE NEED MORE OF YOU AROUND. WAITUNTIL.... GREAT FIND, I WOULD HAVE NEVER LOOKED ON EBAY. ARE YOU THE SAME GUY SELLING THIS? IF SO, IT ALL MAKES SENSE. MY POINT EXACTLY IS YOU CAN NOT FIND THESE IN HIGH GRADE AND YOU REALLY CAN'T FIND THEM ON DEALERS TABLES. JUST BECAUSE A GOOD-VERY GOOD SET COMES AVAILABLE THROUGH AN AUCTION DOES NOT DICTATE THE AVAILABILITY OF THESE. YEAH, I KNOW THAT 707 SPORTSCARDS HAS THEM IN PSA 1-PSA 4. GIVE ME ANOTHER OPTION.

1954

waitilltheytrytosell · August 27, 2002 8:01AM

You might want to try here

TheCARDKid · August 27, 2002 8:12AM

It seems like there are still some high grade (and probably off center) Wilson Weiners out there that haven't been graded. I was glancing through Mr Mint's second book where he talks about his big finds. He said at a show in 1990, he came across 290 cards, with 12 or 13 different players represented (no Ted Williams though). Then when you look at the PSA population report, it shows less than 20-25 total ever graded for most of the players. Hmmmmm.

Of course Mr Mint's "Gem Mint" Wilson Weiners are probably 8 oc or even 7's or 6's. But still, it was a very significant find relative to the amount of cards already in circulation.

If a PSA 9 Williams ever surfaced, it could sell for more than even a '54 Bowman PSA 9 Williams.

waitilltheytrytosell · August 27, 2002 10:13AM

I hate when those finds get lost again.

mikeschmidt · August 27, 2002 11:42AM

Mr. Mint has a lot of nice finds that seem to have eluded many the graded-set collector. I know I am looking for some of them, including:

"Purchaser of the Boston, MA 1952 Topps Find, including over 6,000 Gem Mint high numbers of which there were 65 Mickey Mantle rookies. Sotheby's Auction House called it, "The greatest find of baseball cards ever."

(With the 19 PSA 9 cards in Mastro selling for over $50,000, I am desparately searching for the 6,000 GEM MINT cards...)

"over 100 Mint-condition 1955 Bowman baseball sets"

(As a 1955 Bowman set collector, I will tell you that a set has 320 cards in it [with six variations to boot], and, to this day, less than half of those cards have *ever* been graded PSA 9 or PSA 10. So if you have a lead on any of those 100 MINT sets, I am your main buyer).

MS

NickM · August 27, 2002 2:18PM

Careful, Marc. Branca may hear you.

Nick

TheCARDKid · August 27, 2002 2:25PM

MS,

LOL, I'll be sure to contact you first when I get my greedy little hands on those all brown "Mint" '55 Bowman sets. Seriously though, it shows there are still cards out there not yet graded from these finds. 100 of each card. Even if they were 6's or 7's, they still aren't showing up in the registry.

Maybe with the Wilson Weiners, the collectors holding those raw cards think it's not worth it to get them graded if they are so badly OC. Or with those "Mint" '55 Bowman cards, people realize that it's not worth it to get commons graded if they only come back a 6 or 7.

Leave it to the master of hyperbole to declare the '52 Topps card his "rookie". It's funny how no one ever calls the '52 Topps Mays his "rookie". What a bunch of ridiculous hype.

Set Breakdown - 1954 Wilson Franks

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