How many go for an upgrade?

JOsborne

I've got a question for you seasoned veterans. How many people have sent in coins in an attempt to get an upgrade? Is it a common practice? I've sent in raw coins to be graded (never previously slabbed) but I've never considered cracking one out and sending it back in, hoping my MS64 might get a MS65. Wouldn't you hate to buy a coin in a 65 holder that used to be a 64?

My point (and there has to be a point, right?) is that I'm not smart enough to identify the subtle differences betweeen, say, a 65 vs a 66 coin, yet the price could be exponentially different. What are the odds that the 66 coin used to be housed in a 65?

darktone

JOsborne- I think most people that submit coins on regular basis end up cracking coins out to try for an up grade if they think the coin has potential for grading higher and increasing in value. Grading standards are forever changing so one must really stay on top of things to win at the crack out game. Coin grading is subjective so it's completely possible to grade a 65 one day and a 66 the next day or even several grades apart or body bagged for some reason(I have an indian cent that two grading services call a proof and two other service call MS). Try searching some of the old threads in the thread history and I am pretty sure you will find more on this topic. mike

littlewicher

I think it's an exciting challenge. I especially love cracking out coins from other services' holders and watch them cross and get upgraded. The old PCI coins are great upgraders.

EVillageProwler

I don't know if I qualify as a seasoned veteran, but I very rarely submit coins in hopes of getting an upgrade.

In general, I am indifferent to the concept of upgrading because grading standards are ever changing. And, I rarely sell anything (but my marginal stuff). Perhaps in the distant future I may sell my collection; by then, the grades I get today is pretty much irrelevant. And, the money spend now is simply money wasted.

I say ``rarely'' because I do submit in hopes of getting upgrades. Usually, though, this is motivated by a bizarre confluence of events: I'm low on cash, and getting new holders gives the appearance of getting new coins (silly, huh?!?); I'm particularly frustrated by a few grades; and, I'm changing slabbing service for aesthetic reasons.

EVP

Placid

I only try for downgrades that way I can say the coin is pq.

stman

But at the end of the day it's still the same coin. So I don't think it matters what it used to be. Or what it could be. But I'm just a collector and buy what I feel is solid for the money spent.

stman

goyankeez

I can't answer your question, because I don't have that much experience. But, no matter how many times you submit it or resubmit, the coin is still the same. It may make you feel better that the coin is in a 65 holder instead of a 64 holder, but the coin is unchanged. Regrading does not make the coin any better. It may be a different story if your selling. Selling a coin in 65 is obviously better marketing than 64. Especially when one considers registry sets. As a buyer, I buy from trusted and knowledgeable dealers, who price coins based on what their opinion of it is. ie The better of two coins graded in 67 will be more expensive, etc. In the end you get what you pay for.

I think it's unfortunate that as soon as somebody looks at a slabbed coin, they immediately look at the label and judge it based on that. At least I do. I wonder what it was like before PCGS.

DHeath

The question is a good one. I have re-submitted several times, and for different reasons. I haven't ever re-submitted hoping to get a coin into a holder I felt it didn't deserve, and my re-submissions were coins I felt didn't get the credit they deserved. Cam/dcam designation is one area of grading that seems particularly subjective, as is toning. I believe PCGS grading is very accurate (most errors are to the side of caution), and they provide a financial guarantee against overgrade if you can justify why a coin doesn't make the assigned grade, but they provide no guarantee against undergrade to the submitter, hence that becomes your responsibility. Frankly, if you're a collector, the holder probably doesn't matter very much, but if you take the time and spend the money to submit a coin, you obviously believe the holder offers benefit, and you want the grade on the label to be correct.

I recognize your concern as being directed towards speculators who re-submit multiple times (sometimes double digits) hoping to get a coin bumped, but at the end of the day, the real question becomes whether it makes sense to spend big multiples on a coin without confidence you can discern the difference in one grade point for the coin. Please don't assume that is a criticism, but take my comment only to mean that grading some coins can be extremely difficult even for experts, and if you have doubts, involve someone with experience in that series to help you decide before you spend big money, or buy from someone you trust and have an ongoing relationship with. I think you have correctly identified a chink in the armour as it relates to buying the holder and not the coin.


EVP - I do the same, or dig through the safe for the coins I didn't submit that I thought were too nice to sell, but not better than what I had in my collection. They usually get submitted when I am low for fun money. Guess that makes me an anticipation junkie. I love waiting for the end-of-auction, mailman, grades posting, etc. The hunt for coins is more addictive than owning them!


PS - JOsborne, you are already tons smarter than many, whose ego renders them unable to accurately assess their current grading skills. Grading skills evolve very quickly, and based on your question, yours will be good!