Buying Raw Material?

PlayBall

As I begin to come down the home stretch of completing my 1940 Play Ball set, it has become increasingly hard to find decent graded examples. I have bought raw material before, but I think I may be overpaying for it.

Question #1: If a dealer lists a card as NM/MT, what percentage of SMR PSA 8 should I pay. Same with NM, EX/MT, etc....

Question #2: What dealers are the best at pre-grading their raw material.

Disclaimer: This set is different than most. About 80% of this set would be considered "low pop", but there are NO premiums for 1/1's, 1/2's, due to a general public disinterest in the set.

Thanks,
Bernie

aro13

PlayBall-1) Depending on the dealer-ebay or national dealer I usually downgrade at least one or two grades for PSA assuming there are no hidden wrinkles. So if they grade a card NMMT I guess PSA will grade it a 6 or 7 with most dealers. I have been surprised before but for the most part I do not take the risk. If the card is truly an 8 they would have sent it away to get graded unless of course they do not deal with graded cards at all.
2) Mark Mcrae in California is excellent. He is a tough grader and gives a detailed picture and description with each card on request. He does not deal with graded material at all, so even his high end stuff stays ungraded.

acowa

Aro 13,

Does Mark specialize in certain years? Could you please email me at cowart@mindspring.com with info about how to get in touch with him?

Regards,


Alan

zardoz51

Alan

Pehaps you should check out his shrubbery as well

waitilltheytrytosell

I'm not aware of any dealer who sells raw NMMT 1940 Playballs, or at least has any left after the first person has been through them. You know what you've been paying for cards that have already been graded. You know what it costs to get the cards graded. Raw + grading should put you in the cards at the same or lower price. If you have a feeling that you've been overpaying, then obviously the cards aren't coming back in the condition that you think you are buying - Like paying a NMMT raw price for a card that's only EXMT or NM. There's nothing unusual with that. It's hard enough buying raw 70's in 8 quality stuff from dealers, even harder to find 60's, rare to find 50's, and next to impossible to find 40's. The dealers that are best at pre-grading their cards are sending their cards in to be graded. Try to find a PSA guy that tends to only want to deal in the 8 quality level cards, and doesn't want to even bother sending the lower grade stuff in. He knows what a 7 or 6 looks like, it's just not what he wants to deal in. He will typically buy a group of cards, remove all the nice cards, and then sell the rest either to dealers who do deal in the 7's and 6's, or to dealers who will sell them as raw cards and overgrade them. Buy them from the first guy, and you're okay. Buy them from the second guy, and you're in the boat you're in.

acowa

Paul,

I need some good new sources of shrubbery.


Waittil,

I am down to my last few common cards that I need for a few Topps sets...there are quite a few dealers that don't grade the commons...at this point...it's worth a shot. Any ideas???


Regards,


Alan

Vargha

Agreed with pretty much all of the above. My rule is to never pay more than the market price (not SMR) for the card one grade below what it is advertised at. Even doing that will still get you burned oftentimes.

waitilltheytrytosell

acowa - I would expose my needs on the registry. I would list them under my 1954 - 101 and 126 needs in my footer. I would let every dealer know that I was looking for these numbers. The more people that you have looking for them the better. You are just as likely going to pick up your needs for a fair price as you are to be set up for a gouging by somebody using those numbers to test how much you will pay. At this point though, you wouldn't mind a light to medium gouging. It's only 1967, how bad could it get. If I see a small list of cards under your name, I will take a look to see if I can help. If somebody has to go through hundreds of commons, make a list of the ones that look like they are 8's, and submit the entire list to you in the hopes that you need one or two, it isn't likely to happen. With quick turnaround at PSA, in a few months you'll be done.

69topps8

aro13 - Does Mark sell on eBay? If so, can you share his ID? If he doesn't do you have a contact number? You could send me a private message with the info or email me at gemint@charter.net. In return, I can provide you with a contact that I've mined that is equally impressive in his raw cards. I've received several 9's on cards I've purchased from him. I know these sellers are often found through lots of pain by suffering through several overgraders to find them, so I wouldn't expect you to give out the information freely.

Thanks.

acowa

Waitil,

I will be happy to email or PM you the list. I turned off my list on the registry for the 1967's. My email is cowart@mindspring.com


Regards,


Alan

MickeyC

<< <i>
2) Mark Mcrae in California is excellent. He is a tough grader and gives a detailed picture and description with each card on request. He does not deal with graded material at all, so even his high end stuff stays ungraded. >>



I am also interested in obtaining Mark's contact info.

You can email me at whirl@iname.com or private message.

Thank you.

Mark

aro13

I have only asked for Mark Macrae's pre-war stuff so as far as I know that is what he deals in although he may have more modern material. He has plenty of T cards, W series cards and candy cards. Not everything is high grade, in fact in the pre-war stuff most of what he has is mid-grade. He always scores high on the VCBC dealer surveys. I think his area of expertise is with Zeenuts although he is a major contributor to the SCD big price guide. He also writes articles on vintage cards and sets for different publications.

brucemo

If a dealer advertises a card as NM/MT, and it would make great sense to send the card in for a PSA-8, then I would assume that it's hit or miss, mostly miss. I might be tempted to try for a 7 on the card, but I wouldn't pay very much.

Some stuff, like 60's and 70's Topps commons, you might be able to believe that it's NM/MT, but a '40 Playball? That doesn't make any sense, and if dealers are doing things that don't make any sense, I suspect that their grading makes no sense, either.

I got a '52 Bowman Nellie Fox card advertised as NM/MT, and it came back an 8, but this is a rare deal. The seller was a seller I'd bought NM stuff from before, which was accurately graded, so I trusted his grade. Even so, I paid only a fraction of what I should have paid. I still kind of wonder why he didn't send it in -- the card was toned and maybe that was it.

bruce

PlayBall

Waittil,

I have used the method of buying from dealers that only grade cards they believe to be PSA 8 or better. I buy their NM cards and about 75-80% of the time get PSA 7's, with the occasional PSA 5-6. Not too bad for pre-war.

Brucemo,

Unlike most pre-war sets, this one doesn't carry a premium in a PSA 8 holder. Besides the peace of mind of authentication, there is no incentive for dealers to have this set graded. Raw examples commonly sell for more than a comparable graded one.

Vargha,

The problem for me is that the "market" value is lower than SMR or Beckett, yet the old-time dealers stand firm on their high prices, and bring the same cards to show after show. I'm afraid that I might have to give in, but it kills me to let them think they got me.

Bernie

Vargha

I know what you mean. I used to collect 1939 Play Balls and many dealers were asking more for overgraded raw cards than there properly graded PSAcounterparts.