Took some photos. Lessons learned.

jom

After going to a photo store (at TomB's suggestion) and talked with an expert I came back and shot a few photos.

Check out the difference:

This is an example of the problem I've had with Dig cam photos. The color gets washed out. This was taken with a regular (incandecent) 75 watt bulb.

36-D Buff

After some discussion, I now used sun light in the room instead of the lamp. Notice how the color comes out. It has something to do with what is called "color temperature". Natural light is around 5000 K and incandecent is lower at around 2700 K (more RED). The only difference with these is I tilted them differently. Any ideas out there how to get rid of the glare from the slab? I hate slabs!

36-D Buff

36-D Buff

Kennedy half 75 watt bulb

82 Kennedy

Natural light

82 Kennedy

IMPORTANT NOTE: Also note that with the 75 watt bulb you can see the hairline on the Indian. This should be a lesson to newbies. ONLY use incandecent or halogen lighing to view coins. Those types of light will let you see the hairlines better.

jom

FC57Coins

Good post Jom - thanks!

Frank

coindaughter

They sell "full spectrum" lightbulbs for lizard habitats (I'm the mother of an 11-year-old son!). Maybe that would help when you need artificial light.

jom

TomB had suggested to me those "Reveal" bulbs which have the natural light spectrum....I think. I'll have to check those out.

With my Dig Cam (Nikon 950 "cool pix") you can use the incandencent bulb while adjusting "white balance". This gives a similar effect to using a blue filtered lens (as Tom suggested to me). Blue filters technically changes the color temp from 2700 K (incandecent) to 5000 K or so (natural). I think that is how it works... I tried the "white balance" with the 75 watt but it wasn't as good as the natural light, IMO. Here is the pic of that:

36-D White Balance with 75 Watt

Note that you can see the hairline here...

jom

TheNumish

Has anyone tried the blue light bulbs they sell at the camera store. They keep out that washed out yellow look you get from regular light bulbs.

shirohniichan

What a difference. I probably should invest in a digital camera and take coin photos in natural light. I've probabloy lost money using a scanner since it highlights hairlines and washes out color.

Dog97

I think the second pict in your first post looks the best. I would put up with a little glare to get the rainbow colors. There's a simple way to get rid of the glare but I don't know what it is because I don't use cameras.

supercoin

Nice shots! You could also try an aluminum foil backdrop, opposite your light source. Use the dull side to reflect light back onto the coin. By varying the angle you can sometimes get a better representation of a difficult coin to photograph.

Be sure to recalibrate your white balance first when using the backdrop.

jom

Simple way to loose the glare? Yeah, crack the coin out.

Shiro: Actually, I find that the fluorecent light from a scanner does a FAR better job of showing the color. BUT it does eliminate the hairlines. Perfect world for a seller. lol

jom

rkfish

Jom,

I too, have found that my best pics come from natural light.....I have a huge window (ceiling to floor) in my kitchen and from 10am til about 2pm I get my best pics! I also found that using a white background produces better pics also.

jom

Superman: Are you sure the foil will effect the white balance? How would the foil effect the color temperature of the light? I think it would effect the exposure more than anything. Maybe you were thinking aperature or shutter speed?

jom

windwhispersintrees

While it's better to use correct lighting, a quick fix is to use an image editing program to fix off-color photos.
Paint Shop Pro is relatively inexpensive, and lets you adjust the Kelvin temperature of your photo (warmer/incandescent or cooler/daylight).
I'm not suggesting this be used to "enhance" the coin, but rather to make an offcolor photo look more true to the actual coin.

supercoin

The aluminum backdrop certainly affects the amount and color of the light hitting the coin. The aluminum foil doesn't reflect the whole spectrum equally, and unless you're doing it in a completely dark room any change in lighting will affect the percentage of your light source to other ambient light.

The way I do it with my camera is to set my lighting/backdrop, and have the camera zoomed in about the right amount for the size of the coin. Then I hit the white balance button with my white background filling the viewfinder.

I use a video camera with a live feed, so it's easy to see the dramatic difference the white balance makes. My white background usually appears with a pink-orange tint if I don't set it manually.

BTW, I use a standard incadescent bulb (small spotlight), I've never tried the Reveal bulbs but they sound interesting. Generally speaking I'd guess the less compensation the camera has to do electronically with the white balance the better.

---

For the glare, if you keep your light off to the side (I use about a 45 degree angle) then most of the glare should reflect off the flat surface of the slab 45 degrees to the other side, missing your camera lens.

But frankly I'm not seeing much glare on your shots, they look good to me. If you use a paint program to crop off the distracting plastic around the coin, you probably won't notice it at all.

shylock

Great images Jom, and big improvement on true color & toning -- love that second image. I once asked the gentleman who runs this site about the reflection issue. He replied with this little diagram:

0
/ - light


------------- - diffuser (tracing paper, lighting gel, etc)


O - coin


____________ - black card, to let "shadowed" portions of coin
reflect a dark object


For those you shopping around for cameras it's a great site to get some reviews, including macro examples.

supercoin

Not sure I quite followed that diagram, is the black part underneath the coin, or above on the opposite side of the light?

I use a white background both to make it convenient to adjust white balance, and (when I did more with NGC) so that my exposure settings remain relatively constant regardless between PCGS and NGC slabs. A white background through the translucent PCGS slab is about the same as the opaque white NGC slab. A black background screws that up.

I forgot to mention another thing that helps with reflections is to "hood" your camera. I cut out a hole in a piece of matte black stiff paper and screw my close-up lens through that onto the camera. This prevents lighter parts of the camera, or wires, from reflecting in the slab.

shylock

His setup involved black light baffles between the light source & coin and behind the coin. I personally never tried it, though I've had decent results with black backgrounds when I've used auto mode.

I'm curious if any Nikon users have tried this new product for macro lighting, designed to fit most of the Coolpix models. If it works well for coin imaging it would be perfect for taking on the road since it doesn't require electricity or much of a setup.

airplanenut

<< <i>They sell "full spectrum" lightbulbs for lizard habitats (I'm the mother of an 11-year-old son!). Maybe that would help when you need artificial light. >>



Just buy the 15 watt ones, if you can... I have a 15 watt for my tortoise and a 100 watt for my gecko... the tortoise's produces almost no heat (use a heating pad) while the gecko's makes the cage upwards of 100 degrees (and the dome for the bulb is VERY hot)...

jom

Interesting product there Shylock. I'll have to check that out. I wonder what the cost is AND what type of light it gives.

Superman: Does the white balance work better with the background as white? Don't know about the WB but I was told the camera has an easier time if you have a black background. I suppose it will effect the aperature/shutter is set to auto.

jom

supercoin

Sorry, I wasn't clear on the white balance... there are two kinds:

1. Auto White Balance - This is probably the default on your camera. The camera takes its best guess at what it should be. This usually is fine with "typical" scenes (baby's first steps) but is no good for close-ups of coins.

2. Manual White Balance - With this, you focus on a pure white reference object, then press a button to lock in the white balance. The camera knows what pure white is supposed to look like, and compensates for your off-white lighting. This is what you want.

jom

Ah hah hah hah! That's it! You're the man, Superman!

I'll give it a try.....

jom

TomB

That would be a nice feature, supercoin, it's too bad my camera doesn't have that one. I think your images are looking great, jom.

BBN

<< <i>, it's too bad my camera doesn't have that one. >>

shylock

Jom -- there's a bit more info on that macro light attachment at the bottom of this page. It wasn't due to be leased until July, and I've only found one online camera store that has it listed ($150) but they say "ask" for their availablity. Pretty expensive, but that's Nikon.

TomB

I'm in the present, my camera is at the "YOU ARE HERE" arrow.

Strat

This is an interesting post! The way the natural light brings out the true color and appearance of these coins significant, demonstrating that there is a quality alternative to scanner, which obviously don't do a good job on most coins. Hey Shiroh, looks like we have some equipment upgrades to work on!

jom

I brought this back up because Shylock didn't have good success with the Nikon mini-light (see below for details). It had some bad glare off of the slabs. It seems the next thing to try is the "Reveal" light as TomB suggested to me in a PM. Any other ideas out there???

jom

shylock

Yes, for the benifit of those Coolpix owners who may consider buying the new Macro lens light I linked, don't waste your money!! The only coin I have it did a good job with was a blue IH proof from TomB. The other coppers it seriously darkened, but worse than that is the circle of light beams that would cover a large coin. The PCGS slabs in particular draw this light into the plastic ring around the holder:

examples,

I've tried the reveal bulbs -- I have a feeling they're better suited for silver, as they cast a bit of a darker tone on my copper coins. I found them useful as an extra light source from the other direction as my fluorescent light. As far as artificial light goes, so far I've received the most accurate copper images from my desk length fluorescent light which is very diffuse and easy to set the white balance to.

jom

Shy: What's that coin at the top? Is that the MS63 you picked up the other day? Man, I love rainbow toned copper....!

jom

shylock

It is Jom, though the lighting this gadget created almost makes it look like a negative of the image, it's so dark. It looks closer to this.

DrawTwo

This is an excellant thread! To bad there isn't a way to archive threads like this (MS65 or better) for those who missed it. I was out of town last week and would have missed it if it hadn't been brought back up.

I seem to recall a similar thread a while back by someone who fashioned a "hood" of some sort out of black paper and attached it to his camera that cut down on the glare. Anyone remember who that was?

jom

The hood idea may have been Wondercoin.

Shy: Sure you don't want to sell that?

jom

relayer

My best results come from taking shots outside in the backyard.

But my best shots aren't nearly as good as the first one you improved, so you don't want my advice.