As both a collector and a dealer, my 2 cents on the Keets/Dragon issue

gsaguy

I'm sure most forum members visiting the U.S. Coin Forum have read these 'interesting' threads of the deal-gone-bad between Dragon and Keets. I personally think both made errors. Here are my views (if anyone is interested):

1) Keets, the collector, after first looking at the coin should have known quickly if he really liked the coin or if he had reservations. If he had reservations, he should have returned it promptly with a 'thanks, but no thanks' to Dragon. Contacting Dragon and quizzing him on the coin was setting himself up to be SOLD a coin, versus buying what he liked.

2) Dragon, the dealer, as soon as he was contacted by Keets asking about the overall quality of the coin versus other similarily graded pieces, should have sensed that Keets had reservations and simply requested that Keets return the piece for a full refund. Every dealer knows when he's 'selling' a coin and I suspect that Dragon knew that at this point he was having to promote the coin to an uncertain buyer.

I've both bought and sold coins through this forum and to date, haven't had a negative transaction yet (at least none of which I'm aware). I hope to maintain that lucky streak by not letting anyone SELL me a coin and by not feeling obliged to convince someone that they should buy something with which they're not comfortable. It's just not worth the heart ache....especially the latter.

The moral: If you don't like it, send it back. If your customer's not 100% happy with the item, let him return it and go on to the next deal.

Now, flame me please.

GSAGUY

Clankeye

Can't flame ya. You hit it right on as far as I'm concerned.

TWQG

But how do you feel about shills? I sense it's the big elephant in the room that no one wants to acknowledge.

Bear

Gsaguy - You are correct on all points. It seems a bit of poor judgement was shown on both sides. Life is a learning experience and the two good and decent indeviduals involved , are by now smarter and wiser, as are all of us. Bear

steventheyn

I think you're right gsaguy, hopefully both can admit they were wrong and everyone will be happy again.

clevegreg

I think you hit the nail on the head and are100 % correct! Thanks for the opinion and the good advice.

Greg

Russ

This whole mess reminds me of the movie Gremlins. It just keeps spawning.

Russ, NCNE

MacCoin

hey I also brought and sold here I did have a coin returned once. it all good he the buyer email me right off and told me the probelm I just return his money order he returned the coin on big deal.

Bear

If a person had two belly buttons, would the second one be considered the "NAVEL RESERVE?

Alltec

Bear - What happened to the Absolute and Seven-Up?

Bear

What do ypu think Ive been drinking for the last two hours?

tradedollarnut

I have a real ethical problem with GSAguy. He once represented to me that he bought a finest known trade dollar from Legend and refused to sell it to me. I think that's the ethics of a toad and I've never gotten an apology! Therefore, I intend to start thread after thread about what a toad dealer he is until he gives up and finally sends me a refund (or the coin, I'm not picky).

Bear

TDN - I think its very nice of you to offer the gentleman an option. Bear

tradedollarnut

jmwarren

<< <i>I've said this on the other threads:

That discussion Keets vs. Dragon was pathetic. I t was a dispute between two people. It did and does not serve any purpose to the legitimate collecting community. There are too many different facts that were IMHO improperly discussed. How people can just chime in like they have (many are baseless) is bad. Look how many "experts" there are who commented who don't deal for a living (sorry, but attending EVERY MAJOR Show and dealing w/the real marketmakers is the ultimate in real experience).

Hey, I'm ALL for consumer protection and helping people learn. If you think all that was good, then you're going to wind up with limited knowledge of right vs. wrong in this hobby! Please understand these boards contain heresay. There is no science to learning the "right" way to buy coins.

Laura Sperber
lsperber1@hotmail.com >>



Sorry, but thats a load of crap, specifically, "It did and does not serve any purpose to the legitimate collecting community"......... other collectors, can, and have learned from the mistakes on both sides.

michael

for me if you want a coin and you are at least 21 years of age and are of sound mind and can conduct your own affairs without a legally appointed guardian and you get a coin to look at that you want to consider buying

if you like it you buy it

if you do not like it you return it


as once you buy it and let the return priviledge lapse you own it for better or worse

life is not a guaranteed guided tour nor is it an always fair place

sincerely michael

Bear

Michael - After listening to all the caterwaling today, I wonder if a number of us do need a caretaker. It may be, that 90% of us are really disfunctional and the other 10% are in denial. Bear

oreville

Michael: Of sound mind? Now really, do you think ANY of us are of sound mind?

Catch22

...or as someone once said, it's ok to talk to yourself, it's even ok to answer yourself, but you know you're in trouble when you start saying "huh?"

Dog97

gsaguy don't be calling Dragon a dealer. I got a pm from him telling me to stop bashing him as a dealer because he isn't one. He's just a big time collector. I also think he is a good guy but I'm not a bootlicker that sides with the "big boys" when an issue arises. I'm biased, I'll stick up for the uninformed & less knowlegable collector every time UNLESS HE'S A REAL JERK. Keets aint no jerk and the dragon/golddigger post aint the scandle of the centuary.
I have made many deals on the board and eBay and I have NO PROBLEM WITH ANYONE POSTING THEIR EXPERIENCE ON THIS PUBLIC FORUM
I thought the whole thing was interesting & educational.
I specialize in DMPLs myself and am especially fond of the Carson City models. It was really no big news to me. Even though I'm "not out on a major bourse floor EVERY show" I'm still very qualified to comment on DMPL Morgans. I'm the rare 1%er that Legend was refering to.
With all that mushy mushy bs out of the way Keets made some common mistakes less informed collectors make when buying slabs that I will focus on.
#1 JUST BECAUSE THE INSERT SAID IT IT AINT NECESSARILY SO!!
#2 Anybody familiar with PCGS slabs knows it was slabbed between 1995 and 2000 (ballpark).
#3 " " PCGS grading knows they were generous at that time and to look closely at the COIN because it may be overgraded by a point and price it accordingly.
#4 " " Morgans knows that PCGS was strict with the DMPL designation at that time. The coin WILL BE a DMPL.
#5 " " DMPLs knows that small disturbances are normal on MS 65-66 but big marks in the field in front of the portrait aren't cool. I can overlook the one on the lower rev somewhat but the chatter up top sucks.
#6 " " coins knows dipping is cool but when it leaves white spots on the coin that's not cool.
#7 " " DMPLs know there are no nice ones available, just picked over culls like the one Keets bought that has been through many owners and nobody wanted to keep.
#8 " " DMPLs knows the nice ones are all stashed away in collections and rarely enter the market. When they do they are not sold on eBay or electronic bulletin boards but by major dealers at prices double of "sheet."
#9 " " DMPLs know you don't get a bargain on them or pay "sheet" prices unless you are buying JUNK.

michael

you are very astute when it comes to dmpl coins dog

sincerely michael

StormChaser

Hey Bear, I have two belly buttons. Also have a 17 inch scar that runs just from the waist to the right of a "normal belly button" up five inches and then jets around the back for the remaining 12 inches. Totally off the subject, but thought everybody could use a break.