Grading Coins, How to...

dakra

I've been reading through a few books in recent days, I must have spent a good 3 hours today reading up on grading but none of the books really go into detail on what the difference is between an MS65 and an MS67 (for instance). I did notice one website that mentioned it had to do with how many marks can be found on the coin using a 5x magnifying glass but nowhere can I find it mentioned is *how many* marks. Not only would I like to find out how to grade like the experts but there must be a web resource somewhere that I can look at a coin online and try to grade it myself.

Can someone give me an explaination on the breakdown on PR and MS? Can someone point me to a spot on the internet that might have this explaination? I purchased 2 books today that covered a bit about grading, one mentioned most every grade but gave a small explaination of the MS and PR grading, Is there any one book that is the absolute best at learning to grade?

Your help is always appreciated!
-David

steventheyn

The best way to learn how to grade is to read the books, then go out there and look at as many coins as possible (the "hands on approach"). What I do is look through dealers boxes of PCGS coins, put my thumb over the grade, and see how close I am to the PCGS grade. Hope this helps.

Catch22

Steven, when you look at ACG coins do you put your thumb over the coin like they do?

stman

Sometimes it doesn't just go by marks. It can be a combination of marks, eye appeal etc. Each series can be different. The best way sometimes is learn the series you are collecting real well. Myself, I go by the total balance of a coin. Meaning lets say it might have a few more marks than it should for the grade but if the eye appeal is really outstanding it might bring it up. Hope this helps a little. I didn't want to go on and on. Okay here is an example: A while back I bought a 1881cc pcgs ms65 morgan dollar from a board member called tonelover that people know and respect here including myself. For 65 I like to see a pretty clean cheek. This coin has a little too many light marks than I would like to see in cheek area. But it has original frosty luster, good strike, orange to reddish rim toning. Just a very eye appealing coin. So the coin in whole is a solid 65.

stman

DHeath

The ANA book, the PCGS Guide to coin grading and counterfeit detecting, and the holdered examples with pictures for sale on ebay, heritage and yahoo are good places to begin. Eye appeal, strike, luster, marks, and toning all affect grading. Looking at the reference material above and practicing on slabbed coin pictures is a good way to begin.

Cam40

Those where the two books I was going to mention too.As well as just looking at alot of top services slabs,er all slabs for that matter.Depeding on the series,,thats the real hard part about grading,alot of series grade differently,,from most conservative to the loosest slabbers are.... PCGS,NGC,ANACS,ICG,SEGS,PCI,ACG.Thats a basic grading of the services.Grading is so subjective.
The more you know the more critical you become.

dakra

Thanks Guys, Cam40... That's what my problem is currently. I have seen a good deal of coins by just looking at circulated coins, looking at my proof sets, commemeratives, unciruculated coins...etc, I'm actually starting to become very critical of each and every coin I look at!

Speaking of which... here's a JFK I received from an Uncirculated Set, Check out all the scratches around the rim.... It makes you wonder what they do with these coins :-)

I'm going to read through the books I picked up and will look into the other books that were mentioned on the thread... and hopefully when I have time I will take a look at some of the auctions and hope I can pick out the differences. I actually picked up a photograde book but it only goes through F-VF-G-AU..etc and again, it does not even show a photo of a PR or MS but briefly describes the differences in the amount of bag marks or marks it has. Kind of frustrating that it does not go into details as I WANT TO LEARN!!! :-)

Thanks again guys!
David

Placid

Have read the info at pcgs? If not here is a link.

PCGS Grades

DHeath

David,

Don't become too critical as you look at your coins, and remember, just because a coin doesn't supergrade doesn't mean it isn't nice enough to keep. In the beginning, the more you know about grading, the worse your coins look. It takes awhile before you'll get comfortable again with eye appeal. Since you can post pics, anytime you need an unbiased opinion, post a pic. The guys here are GOOD, and generally very helpful.

jhar

Speaking of marks, it's not just how many marks a coin has, it's also where the marks are. Every coin has focal areas, areas of the coin that the eye is naturally drawn to. A coin graded MS65 may have marks in the focal areas, that a coin graded MS67 should not have.

kingmatt

I thought marks like that were from metal flow. I'm probably wrong though. I have a roll of 1955 Jefferson's with that same kind of marking.

dorkkarl

<< <i>it's not just how many marks a coin has, it's also where the marks are >>

also important is the depth of the marks, ie. a tiny pinpr!ck deep into the surface may be more significant that a larger mark that barely disturbed the surface. also keep in mind that strength of cartwheel luster ("wheels") is important too. finally, the overall look of the coin is the overriding factor. there are many cases where the sum of the parts is better than the overall grade simply because something just didn't look "right" about the coin (toning, for example).

btw, did you know that pinpr!ck is a forb!dden word???

K S

Cam40

David-Those are not scratches.They are flow lines.What makes you think they are scratches is probably from the fact that the coin was struck from deteriorating dies.The flow lines are a bit exaggerated due to this coin struck with worn dies.
Someone please correct me if I,m wrong,but I think that is right.

Bear

If its a Kennedy Half Proof and you cant afford a grading service, let Russ see a picture of it . He will give you a grade, and a pretty darn accurate grade at that. Bear

Cam40

Or it may be from the characteristics of the planchet or the annealing process.Could be this planchet wasnt heat treated properly.
Its one of the two.Or a combination of both.Worn dies and a `cold`blank?
When in doubt..call Dog97.

dakra

See what happens when I spend time away from the computer?!!? I get a bunch of replies. As for the JFK, those are flow lines? I thought those were scratches from the coins rubbing together...but now that I think about that... it would have scratched the whole coin. Flow Lines huh? I can buy that :-)

I did receive 4 of my coins back today. I looked at them to see if I could tell why they graded what they graded. Now one coin "Capitol Vis Ctr" has a pin size crator in it and it graded an MS69, otherwise the coin is flawless. I also send in a Library of Congress that also graded an MS69... it appear to me that it has a flawless strike, no scratches, no blips, no errors. I can see why my Sac came back as a pr68dcam, the reverse has a few flaws that I overlooked before sending it in. I can see two tiny scratches on my Georgia Quarter (PR69DCAM) and also a droplet of something that I did not place on the coin :-)

I'm beginning to get a better idea of the differences in the grading but I'm sure I'm a long way off from grading on my own, it will take some practice and a better analysis of my coins. Perhaps there is something I do not see with the Library of Congress but I think I would feel better sending it back in and hope I can get an MS70 for it. With that in mind, has any coin grading company given thought to adding a "comment sheet" to explain why a coin was given a certain grade. Like: "Coin was given an MS69 due to a small scratch on the "L" in Liberty"... that's just an example. It would be nice and an excellent way for a newbie like me to learn.

In any case, I have to get ready to go jogging. Thanks for all of your insight.
-David