Coins with history and character.

Russ

Got this in this week. When I look at it, I can't help wondering who has owned it over the years. Maybe a soldier after a valiant battle bought a meal or a shave? Not much in the value department, of course, but cool I think.

Russ, NCNE

mdwoods

Well, if ya want my "2 CENTS" worth....

RLinn

It does make you wonder where they've been. I have a half dozen similar coins from the mid 1800s that I occasionally carry in my pocket just to be reminded throughout the day what it might have looked like to conduct business in that era.

dorkkarl

congrats on picking up some vintage material. as you say, the historic interest outweighs financial reward on these. don't think it would have bought a meal or a shave though. a can of soda or a disposable razor would be closer in value./

K S

Russ

<< <i>don't think it would have bought a meal or a shave though. >>



HMM...maybe he would have had to cough up a half dime?



Or, perhaps an entire ten cents?



I kind of like these old coins.

Russ, NCNE

1jester

Russ, I love that old coinage, too. I like the 2 cent pieces. I just picked up a similar piece, but an 1864, at auction, for $16. I couldn't tell what grade it was, but when I got it, it's a solid AU-55 with deep, dark splotchy mint luster. I am very happy, to say the least.

But proof JFKs still RULE!!!

keets

those odd denomination coins have always intrigued me because it makes a strong statement to me about how much the economy has changed. as for the romanticism attached to those old coins, one like this probably only circulated for 10 years or so---my hunch from wear----and it's been sitting in one location or another since then. kinda like the feeling a lot of people have about morgan dollars, river boats and gamblers, when the truth is that the overwhelming majority of coins ended up overseas or in bank vaults waiting for the big Pittman meltdown and the GSA releases.

back to the coin at hand, i like the symbolism of the shield on it and on the nickels of that era. no doubt influenced by all the turbulence of the war. the statement i see is a safeguard of liberty. coins rock!!

al h.

1jester

As far as the memory of the attempts to safeguard liberty is concerned, I'd LOVE to get a Confederate cent!!!

Russ

I'm also looking forward to an 1865 3-cent piece that should be here shortly. I think I'll put together an odd-ball album.

Russ, NCNE

Ruffydawg

Minted the year the War ended and a president died. Coins are history. You have a nice one.......enjoy.

keets

1jester

didn't they use the new orleans mint for awhile and one other one on the east coast?? there's alot of confederate currency floating around but i don't think i've ever seen any coins. do you have something you can post a picture of?

al h.

EVillageProwler

One thing I noticed about the 2c piece: the GOD in the motto is a very high point and wears down quickly.

I'd like to believe that this is a metaphor of our losing our spirtuality and religion quickly in time of war.

EVP

Russ

EVP,

Actually, it's the WE that wears flat. Considering the era of the coin and the war in which were were engaged at the time, the metaphor is profound.

Russ, NCNE

kieferscoins

GOD is on the left. WE is the high point and gets worn down. Check out russ's coin again.

Cameron Kiefer

EVillageProwler

Gaddammitt!!!

What the heck was I on before? Anyway, I like Russ' attempt to cover for me on the metaphor front!



EVP

1jester

Keets,

As far as I understand, the 1861 Confederate Cents were made in Philadelphia, but the maker, Mr. Lovett, apparantly didn't deliver any coins, but rather hid them and the dies in his cellar for fear of arrest for aiding the enemy. The Redbook lists total mintage at 12. Later, a Capt. Haseltine bought the dies, and made a few restrikes in copper, gold and silver (74 total). In 1960 the dies were copied and more copies were made. I have one of those, but they aren't worth much. You can look in the Redbook for more info and pictures, since I don't have any scans.

the 1861 Confederate Half Dollar is another interesting story. Apparantly 500 genuine half dollars from the New Orleans mint had their reverses planed off and stamped with the Confederate die. 4 original half dollars were struck on a hand press, using original silver half dollar planchets, and these were given to a few dignitaries. Lack of bullion is cited as the main reason for not minting more of these. Info from the Redbook.

Kejun99

KS,
Was reading an old letter postmarked 1915 from my Dad to his mom ; he was 16 at the time and he mentioned that his brother got his shoe fixed for a nickle... was probably the V nickel ; could have been a new Buffalo. They had just moved to the big city to go to school...Albany ! He wrote that he was homesick ..for about 15 minutes then they went out to dinner !
Ken

Kejun99

Russ,

The more I read your threads the more impressed i become with your work, dedication and love of the "Coin".. and not the money !
THe beauty of a slightly worn coin is not to be underestimated ! The two cent piece even takes on a new perspective with the "We" worn off is ceases to be a statement and is now a plea or command ! In God, Trust !

Thanks for your expertise and showing and sharing...

Ken

DHeath

Russ,

I love your collection too. For fun, I thought I'd show you the 332 A.D. mint set I'm conserving in olive oil. Talk about history! Old Constantinius is on the porous planchet.

Conder101

Ijester,

Go back and read the Redbook again. You have the infomation about the cent right but you are mixing information on the half dollar between the genuine and the Scott restrikes.

Confederate coinage in brief. After Louisiana seceded the State took over the New Orleans mint and struck 1.24 million half dollars using the regular Seated Liberty dies. Then the Confederacy took it over and struck 962,633 half dollars also from the regular dies. Later the Confederacy created a die with their own seal and combined it with a seated Liberty obverse to strike four pattern half dollars. (These were the pieces given to the VIP's) After the war Scott acquired the Confederate die and used it to strike 500 pieces in white metal and restrike 500 1861-O half dollars. Two pieces were strurk without planing off the coins reverse but too much of the original design showed so the other 498 were planed. The Confederate die was used as the hammer die and the coins were placed face down on a soft brass plate to minimize the crushing of the obverse design. these 500 restrikes were sold by subscription for $2 each. Scott claimed a rapid sellout but he actually had stocks of the restrikes and it took him several years to actually move all of them.

The Confederacy also struck an unknown but small number of gold dollars in 1861 at the mint in Dahlonaga using the Union dies that had been sent there before the start of hostilities. And at the Charlotte mint 887 half eagles were struck. (The Union struck 5,992 half eagles using the same dies.)

And of course you know about the cent.

zenny

better watch out Russ, it sounds as if your proof Kennedy collection may be in danger. ;-)

DMWJR

An 1878 VAM 44 is my storied coin. Yes, it is in an ANACS MS60 holder, although it is really an AU58PL. I think they bumped it because of the PL surfaces. Anyway, here is the delightful story behind the coin, as published by Jeff Oxman on www.vamlink.com

The Tale of One Young Cherry-Picker

Mystery novel fans take heart -- the story of the particular specimen featured here has more turns than an Agatha Christie novel. Purchased on the West Coast at a small, club-sponsored show, it would have been the most unlikely of venues for a major discovery. After all, cherry-pickers require lots of coins to examine, whereas this show offered relatively few coins to choose from.

Yet there it was, a coin viewed by several hundred potential buyers, all of whom passed it by. Marked "1878 7/8-TF" on the flip (the dealer thought it was the common VAM 33), the coin was overgraded at MS63, but this young collector, with his burgeoning interest in silver dollar varieties, bought the coin anyway. He said later that he had "felt" there was something different about this coin! Later, after a close inspection and a comparison with pictures in the VAM Book, the collector contacted the SSDC to corroborate his attribution. Was this the famous VAM 44? It sure was. Imagine, one of the premier coins in VAM collecting was acquired without either the dealer or the collector knowing its true identity!

Having been contacted, there was lots of good news and a little bad news to report. The good news was that the lucky collector had indeed hit a home run. Without question, this Mark McGwire long ball not only carried the outfield wall, but landed in another country! The only issue was the grade. It appeared to this conservative grader to be an AU58. Would it stretch to an MS60? Was that a trace of wear or a touch of flatness about Liberty's ear. The lustre was full, but did it have enough "pizzazz" to be a "new" coin? Hey, why fret? It was the VAM collector's find of a lifetime in either case.

The moral of the story? Cherry-picker's dreams can, and do, come true. This VAM 44, which was originally purchased for less than $100, subsequently sold in an SSDC Mail Auction for $2400! The collector who acquired this ultra-rare specimen later called to say that this was the happy ending to his dream of completing a 7/8-TF Set, a feat duplicated by less than a dozen numismatists worldwide. And the consignor, who couldn't help but write the Society about the details of his adventure, was particularly thrilled with the results. And why not? There's something magical about spinning straw into gold!

jtryka

Russ,

That is a great story! I recently started a set of circulated 3-cent nickels, and since the Dansco album also included a page for 2-cent pieces, I started them too (both sets can each fit on a single page). I wanted the circulated coins to enjoy them for what they were, little time capsules of our history, I didn't want to get caught up in the MS-?? RD, RB, BN thing, I just want nice coins with honest wear and they are pretty inexpensive for the history they contain. I really have no idea what you could buy for 2c or 3c back then, but I am guessing that they must have been like nickels were in the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s, where a lot of things cost a nickel. Maybe someone could buy some feed for their horse as they went into a saloon for a drink, or maybe they could buy a plate of chop suey for the thousands of Chinese immigrants that built the railroad, or maybe it was like a dream come true for a young Teddy Roosevelt in a candy store in New York. Or maybe they were just oddball denominations that people just saved in coffee cans like we do with half dollars and Sacagaweas today? That may be true, but from the look of some of these coins, I'd say that a lot of them were spent many, many times.

1jester

Conder, thanks for the extra info. The latest Redbook that I have is the 1998 edition. True, I said nothing about the 500 Scott tokens in white metal. But my Redbook says nothing about how the 500 "Confederate Half dollar restrikes" were made, nor the extra detail of the "Scott Tokens". My Redbook lists a mintage of 4 for the original, hand-press "Confederate Half Dollars". And 500 for the "restrikes", and 500 for the "Scott Tokens". I know that many normal 1861-O half dollars were struck at the New Orleans mint and those struck before the war can't be distinguished from those struck afterwards.

Thanks for your extra info.

How many 1860-O dimes do you think still exist? I have one. Are they underpriced?

stujoe

My collecting preference is for worn, circulated coinage. It's a sickness.

This is a piece I picked up fairly recently:



If only it could talk.

Conder101

I don't have a copy but I have been told that in the Wiley-Bugart book on seated halves they identify five die varieties that can be traced to use by the Confederacy. The seated Liberty obverse die that was used to strike the four genuine Confederate halves was used to strike 1861-O halves for the confederacy

I don't know how many 1860-O dimes are out there but I do know that it is a popular target for fakes. The genuine has a medium size date and a small O mintmark and if you look on the shield above the banner the upper continuation of the vertical stripes is in only five lines. (Many fakes are made by altering 1890 coins and they have large dates and mintmarks and the stripes are in three groups of two lines.)

silverandvinyl

Russ:I feel the same way you do.I have a 1798/97 bust dime I found 50 years ago.I often pull it out and think about the persons that had this dime in their pockets.I would not sell this piece because of what history it may have.Everytime I look at this coin it gives me goose bumps.Ive had it graded an it came back a VF20.Of course,"I think it'better that" .I'm not going to tell what company graded it becaus you'll laugh at me.I had it slabed so I could preserve it.I could sell it any time I want to.I have a lot of collectors in my area that never seen one outside of a coin book.I just love looking at it.

Bear

Silverandvinyl - I think your views sum up how most of us collectors feel, about beautiful , old , circulated coinage. The stories they could tell us, if they could only talk. Bear

silverandvinyl

Doug: I am fairly new at this game.Could you tell me what VAM is all about?