About Counterfeit coins...........

Hunt

Hi Guys,
I have a few questions in regards to counterfeit coins. As a collector of rare US coins, especially gold coins, I'm always on the look out for counterfeit coins. I've read too many times on this forum about people who have purchased fakes thinking they were real. (usually off eBay)

I wanted to ask if anyone knows of a website or even better a museum that displays counterfeit coins.

And does anyone know of a collection of counterfeits; different coin types and various counterfeit designs/quality owned by a collector?

Also, what are some good books on counterfeit detection (I have the PCGS book on such, but was looking for more suggestions.)

I'm thinking about putting together a collection of US counterfeit coins for the purpose of educating myself and other collectors about detecting them. I've heard that the Secret Service has an extensive collection of fake bills and that is part of the way they detect counterfeit bills. Does such a collection exist for coins?

How would I go about finding such coins and is there any pricing guidelines for such coins. Obviously ebay sells a lot of fakes, but too many times people sell them as real coins and the reproductions are too sloppy (or stamped copy). I'm interested in finding really high quality counterfeits. I'm sure you all with have fun with this topic.

Thanks.
-Hunter

wallstreetman

Coin Collectors Survival Manual by Scott Travers!

Hunt

thanks for the book title; Gekko!!!

construct

Scott Travers doesn't say beans about detecting counterfeit gold. He basically says, if it's raw don't buy it. I've studied the PCGS book and compared the descriptions to my own coins. I too want more. Anybody else have other suggestions.

Oh, about pricing . . . um . . . possibly deceptive replicas, dealers offer spot. I have seen cast copies of classic half dollars offered on bid boards. They go pretty cheap. Replica Trade Dollars have been available for about $5.00 at shows I've attended.

gemseeker

Gekko? As in Gordon Gekko?
I just recently purchased a $20 gold coin and will have it authenticated. I haven't seen any displays of counterfeit coins in the local museums though. I am not aware of any museums that would have examples of it, but I guess the US Mint might be a place to look for them. I was under the impression that counterfeit coins and bills could not be sold legally. Any that are found are to be turned over to the Secret Service. I also that the PCGS book, but there is little on gold counterfeit coins.

nwcs

The best tool for counterfeit detection is a video by the ANA (www.money.org) that goes through counterfeit detection and identifying the various characteristics. For ANA members it is $30. It's very good. It's 3 hours and covers many of the most common (and some not common) counterfeits and techniques.

Neil

PS: Oh, and the video covers gold counterfeits

cdmead

The ANA put out two volumes aptly entitled, "Counterfeit Detection" volumes 1 and 2. I'm not sure if both are still in print, but they can be found. There is also a counterfeit newsletter by them that's put out monthly.

Also "Lonesome John" Devine wrote two volumes on counterfeits. The first volume (which is out of print) was about copper and silver (mostly US) coins. The second volume dealt with gold. I forget the exact name of the books.

A few rules to remember when looking at uncertified coins:

1) If the coin is a rare date or type and has been cleaned, this should raise alarm bells about what might be covered by the cleaning. (In general, I'd suggest avoiding uncertified key date coins)

2) Raised bumps of metal are typically bad.

3) The edge will tell you more than the obverse and reverse sometimes.

4) A mintmark that is in better grade than the rest of the coin usually didn't start on the coin. Also look for tooling marks around the mintmark.

Good luck,

Charlie

dorkkarl

hey, great thread. i collect die-struck counterfeits, if anyone has some for sale and Hunt doesn't get em 1st, let me know. especially seeking lower denom's, such as half-dimes and dimes.

K S

1jester

Great idea (and thread) Hunt. I think it would be very valuable for us to know more about counterfeiting. Maybe an online source, too, so we could access photos/scans of each coin.

Conder101

The ANA has a collection of counterfeits but I don't think it is on display. They use it at ANAAB and as educational tools in their counterfeit detection seminars. Many dealers collect counterfeits. There are also several bust half collectors who collect counterfeit bust halves by die variety and there is a book published on die varieties of counterfeit bust halves.

dorkkarl

the book on c.f. bust halves is by Keith Davignon, a great book, but sorely neding an update. but c.f. halves are common, the low denom's are extremely rare. seriously, if anyone has ANY counterfeit silver below 50c face, i'm real interested.

K S

Hunt

Thanks for the info. and if I find anything on the net worth a look I'll let everyone know. I think that if an online catalogue of such is created about fakes and counterfeits it would do wonders for our hobby and keep some of us from getting burned on ebay!

One of the reasons I buy slabbed coins from PCGS is to avoid getting ripped off by a fake, especially gold. Thanks again and I look forward to more posts.

-Hunter

1jester

I just took a chance and bought a 2-coin lot on an online auction (in Poland), and it turned out that both coins were cheap cast counterfeits, but the scans didn't show it, because they were fotographed from a distance. The buyer has a good rating, but in another branch of collectibles. She may not have known they were fake. I'm trying to get my money back, but if I don't, I can donate the coins to a collection. One is a seated Liberty half. It is lighter, smaller, thicker, and has an unnatural color, more like pewter. It has some silver in it, but I could tell immediately upon receiving it that it was fake. The surfaces were uneven, bubbly-looking.

Win some, lose some.

KlectorKid

I got a counterfeit penny in my change , the date was before lincon memorials were made.

Hunt

1Jester,

Too bad they were fakes. I hope you didn't pay too much for them. If you don't end up returning them I would like to have them for my collection--I'm going to start a collection of counterfeits and eventually get them to a website. If anyone else has any counterfeits they would like to donate or sell for a nominal fee I would be interested. Email me or send a PM. Thanks.

-Hunter

dorkkarl

and like i said, anythign that hunt don't buy, i'll buy!

wallstreetman

Dont we have a problem with counterfeits? If we start collecting them, were making more of a market for them! The last thing we need is more fakes! The thing to do if you come across one is destroy it!

dorkkarl

i'm referring to "contemporary" counterfeits, not modern counterfeits. it's a historically legit field of numismatics.

K S

Conder101

I also collect counterfeits so anything the other two don't want (since they asked first) send my way. I'm most interested in contemporary counterfeits, less so on fakes made to fool collectors and even less in altered coins.