Aren't there any token collectors around here?

cladking

The general collectibles forum is mostly dead or under-used. Surely there
are enough token collectors around that we could use it.

supercoin

Gottapostthisquick before someone beats me to it!

Token Forum

cladking

Good one Supercoin. Didn't even see it coming!

Cam40

lmao @ Tad

1jester

Supercoin, WOW!! I guess you don't own any "tokens", huh?!



Cladking, do you collect tokens (not Darkside coins)? I posted a thread about 2 weeks ago about a gold (1/4 oz.) proof token/medal (how can I tell which?) which was produced for the 1964/65 New York's Fair, and it commemorates the "Hall of Education". On one side is the statue of liberty, and on the other a world/globe. I would definitely like to know what it is and what it's worth (besides bullion value). Can you help me? I have no clue. Thanks.

postman

Hi cladking, I do a few transportation and car wash tokens, belong to the AVA. Is this what you have in mind? Bob

cladking

Yea, ijester. I saw the post and nearly responded. This kind of medal is difficult
to put a price on. Most were made in bronze and it is not too difficult as such.
I didn't even know it exists in gold. No doubt, it has a very low mintage. Usually
info about these things is extremely tough to obtain even when the item is only
40 years old. World's fair items are one of the most avidly collected of all tokens
and medals. It would easily fetch gold value. To get it's true value it would have
to be auctioned by one of the biggies. If I were looking to sell it I'd put it on E-bay.

Yes, postman. It's good to see at least one other token collector around here. I
collect everything by die variety, and type. Do you have the Atwood-Coffee Vol. III?
Vol. I, or II? How about the car wash catalog?

MrLee

<< <i>The general collectibles forum is mostly dead or under-used. >>


Not a bad idea cladking. I'm sure almost everyone here has tokens, medallions, wooden nickles and the like. I've had questions about some of mine or just would like to share photos but the coin forum just not seem the place to post them. The autograpah forum is the most under used of all. It might be an even better place. You're not going to get push-back from anyone there.

I'm not a serious collector of tokens. Just stuff I've run across, like most people, but you do find some very interesting pieces at times. And I've never really tried to research them. That's a project for another day.

Maybe a plea to the powers that be would be sufficent to start a new section or, more likely, change an existing one to tokens. I don't know if PSA or PCGS slabs these but it would be an excellent place to exchange ideas and information, or just show off your collection without bothering or annoying others.

1jester

I think adding a token section would be a great bonus to these boards, and PCGS would benefit too. We could all learn more about tokens, which is sort of an unknown topic. I'd personally like to know much more about tokens (I like Hard Times Tokens too, but don't own any), and what purposes they served. I too have noticed the general collectibles forum is underused to say the least. I feel tokens are very related to coins and would be a great addition to the CU message boards. What about medals? That would be also very related to tokens, and coins.

Cladking, thanks for the help with the World's Fair token. I had no idea that World's Fair tokens were popular; I just got this one because it was gold, proof, and looked cool. I might consider selling it sometime in the future, but after I return to the States in a year. The reason for that is that I don't feel comfortable trying to sell on eBay yet, from Eastern Europe.

Welcome, Postman!!

Conder101

I collect Conder tokens of course but I also collect OPA tokens (two complete sets one circ, one Unc) and I have an interest in Civil War patriotics, coal scrip, and several medallian series such as Sunoco Antique Car coins and Mardi Gras Doubloons.

Are you sure the worlds fair piece is gold and not just gold plated? I find it unlikely that they would have produced a gold version since under the law at that that time it would have been illegal to own. On the other hand though Abe Kossof's firm Numismatic Galleries did strike some kind of medal or token in connection with one of the worlds fairs and he did produce some of them in gold. I don't remember all of the details but I do know that the government stepped in and made him stop production and destroy the dies. They did allow him to keep the samples though. I'll have to look into that.

Gemini

Hi cladking glad to meet another token collector...
I have been colecting CWT's and HTT's for about 30 years now. I am a member of the CWT Society for many years and have had some of my research published a few times in the Copperhead Courier. Not to blow my own horn they even awarded to my surprise a plaque to me one year for second best article.
There is still much information lacking on many tokens and it is really fun to study them and uncover some new information.
Unlike the many other areas of regular coinage tokens have not been researched to death and there is much to learn.
My centerpiece is a Civil War token from New York that is R-9 (est.4 are known to exist)...okay so its not worth as much as 1804 silver dollar but is similarly rare and it is fun to be its caretaker never the less.

cladking

Of course they'll probably stick us with a name like far-side or under-side and even
the dark-side collectors will look down their noses at us.

I also collect business and advertising medals, Mardi Gras doubloons, school lunch
tokens, military, car wash, restroom, religious, civic, and municipal tokens. Have not
put much effort into these for a while but am ready to get back to the hunt.

mdwoods

Cladking, I have recently started collecting Tree themed coins. I suppose I would collect tree themed tokens too if I find any. A token forum would be great. I would definitely like to be the first to officially start an argument between Modern and Classical Token collectors.


Kidding about the argument, serious about the forum.

1jester

Condor101, thanks for the additional input! You're right, gold was illegal to own. Since I know practically nothing (or less) about tokens, your info is very insightful. The token in question is 26.5mm in diameter, weighs 7.93 grams, and has a very small, raised " (0.900) " at the base of the statue, along with (inside the parenthesis, after the numbers) a square outline, with what looks like a bell inside. It's all so small, you can barely make it out with the naked eye. If you want, I can send you scans of it. Same goes for cladking. There are a couple small test marks in the token, and I believe it's solid gold.

I have a couple other tokens I can't identify. One is a brass token from 1827, commemorating the death of a Frederick, Duke of York, "The Soldier's Friend". Another is copper, and looks like sitting Brittania on one side, and on the other, within a wreath, is a head of Mercury?, but with a medical cadusus sticking out into the right field. I guess it's from the middle of the 19th century.

See, we have already started our "Medals and Tokens Forum"!!!

1jester

Cladking, I didn't know there could be something worse than "Darkside" items, but it looks like we have just found something more insulting, right? I too wonder what the appropriate term will be. I don't really want to speculate on it right now!!

I have another silver token, almost as large as a silver dollar, from the 17th century, maybe Germany. It's some kind of anti-pope token, written in latin, and depicts the pope on one side, but if you turn it upside down, the effigy of a clown becomes visible. It's a complete riot, in my opinion, but I can see how others might not appreciate it too much.

Happy (token) collecting!

Conder101

Ijester,

Your second token is British (obviously) and was issued in the 1800 - 1820 period. It was a private token issued for circulation during a period of coin shortages similar to the period that saw the issuance of the Conder tokens. The standard reference for the system used to be Provincial token coinage of the nineteenth century by Davis. Their is a new standard reference now but I can't remember the title.

The proper term for tokens and medals is exonumia.

MacCoin

I once got a casino chip in a trade. it was very pretty but I sent it out in another trade hopeing it would find a home with someone who would apperciate it more.

BillJones

I collect Civil War, Hard Times and 19th century Presidential political campaign medalets. I sell Civil War tokens and can obtain examples of the two other series if anyone else is interested. I also have written a series of articles about Presidental campaigns for "The Political Collector" newspaper. I also have written a number of articles for the Civil War Token Journal.

If anybody has any questions about those areas, fire away.

I don't collect modern tokens, casino chips or wooden nickels.

1jester

Conder, thanks for the very useful info.

1jester

1jester

Wow! I'm excited! Following instructions from a recent thread about how to get your picture to upload, I just posted my first successful scan!!! I'm extremely elated, and thank all involved in this monumental succcess.

Conder, thanks again for your input. Now you can see the token for yourself. By the way, what are Sunoco car tokens? When were they produced? Recently on an auction I saw a collection of about 30-40 round brass tokens of antique cars. Is that what you're talking about? Are they worth anything? I love old cars.

Conder101

Back in the late 1960's and early 70's both Shell and Sunoco ran contests where whenever you came in for gas they would give you a little sealed packet that held an aluminum token that pictured an antique car on one side with the year it was produced and on the other side would be the oil companies logo. There were also some tokens that would have Instant winner on them. These would be good for various products, gas or the most common one was for a full set of the tokens struck in bronze. It was also possible to purchase the bronze set for $20. I believe both companies ran two different series of the car tokens. They also had other series on Presidnt of the US, national landmarks and some others. This was back in the era of the SERVICE station. You pulled in and a bell rang. Someone would come out to pump your gas. And while it was pumping they washed your windows, checked the air in your tires, and checked your oil all for free. If your car need work they had service bays where a mechanic could repair your car, replace your tires (with mounting and balancing) It was a one stop location that could do most everything you needed for your car.


I did a little research on the size and weight spec you gave for the medal. If it is a little thicker than a quarter it would work out very well as being gold plated 900 fine silver. If it is actually 900 fine gold it would have to be half the thickness of a ten dollar gold piece. Or it would weigh 16 grams.

1jester

Yes, Conder, I remember service stations too, although I didn't do the driving (I'm 33 now).

As for the token, yes, it is the same size (essentially) as the $10 gold piece (Eagle); I've put them together just to compare, and the token is half as thick as the Eagle. Also, there are a few test marks (made by a needle, or sharp instrument) on the token (to see if it's plated or not), and it's solid gold. Interesting!

Thanks also for the info on the other tokens.

1jester

Conder, as I'm brand-new at exonumia, could you please tell me the difference between a medal and a token? Thanks.

BillJones

The distinction between a token and a medal can get blurry at times.

Generally a token is a piece that was or could have been used as a replacement for a coin. Their size ranges from almost equal or usually smaller than a half dollar to dime size or rarely even smaller. In America the most of the circulating Hard Times Tokens (1837 to 1845) were about the size of the large cent. Most Civil War Tokens (1861-4) were cent sized. (The small bronze cents, NOT the thick copper-nickel pieces)

A medal was made as a piece of artwork or as an award piece. The intent was that such pieces would not circulate and would not be used as substitutes for money.

Where does it get blurry? Well there are some rather large pieces that have come to be listed as Civil War Tokens because they advertised a business. A small number of these pieces have diameters that are equal to or greater than a silver dollar. Most often when you find them they show no signs of actual circulation although they might have environmental damage. This indicates that these pieces did not circulate very much if at all, yet they are listed with the tokens.

There were also many 19th century political tokens that were issued for presidential and lower office races. A few of these pieces did circulate like money. They are also often the size of a quarter or less. So what are they? Tokens or medals? Some of us political collectors have solved the question by calling them “medalets.”

shirohniichan

I have another silver token, almost as large as a silver dollar, from the 17th century, maybe Germany. It's some kind of anti-pope token, written in latin, and depicts the pope on one side, but if you turn it upside down, the effigy of a clown becomes visible. It's a complete riot, in my opinion, but I can see how others might not appreciate it too much.

1jester, what is the inscription on that medal? As a student of the Reformation, I'm really interested in such things.

Conder101

Bill has given a very good explaination of the difference. The key is the intent. If it was intended to be used as a substitute for a coin then it is a token. If it wasn't inteded to be used like money then it is a medal. Technically there or also distinctions in the field of medals as well based on size. To truly be considered to be a medal it should be over, I believe, 2 1/2 inches in size. Smaller medals are more properly called medallians (sp). And thost metal things that hang from ribbons and pins like the purple heart awards for bravery , etc. The proper term for those are decorations, not medals.

1jester

Thanks folks. I thought the difference was something like that, but wanted to make sure.

Shiroh, the medal you're asking about has an effigy of the pope on both sides, and on the obverse when you turn it upside down, it turns into the devil. On the reverse, it turns into a jester/fool (no big difference. The inscription on the obverse is: ECCLESIA PERVERSA TENET FACIEM DIABOLI. The reverse inscription is: STULTI ALIQUANDO SAPIENSES. 37mm in diameter, 12.9 grams silver. Extremely funny medal. ( I suppose it's a medal, but it's slightly worn, maybe VF-30).

If you have any further info on any of these medals, I'd be happy to hear from you. Thanks!

cladking

Many items still will fall into a grey area. Often items which were made to represent
things other than money will be called tokens. The Shell oil "tokens" are tokens of
appreciation for buying your gas there. Love "tokens" are to represent the giver's love.
Masonic tokens represent membership in the Masons. There are good luck tokens, tool
check tokens and several others. Certainly most tokens represent something of value
like 5 cents or a quart of strawberries and are often used as money.

Flash

This thread prompted me to check through a box of miscellaneous/foreign stuff my stepfather had given me. I found a Washington State Tax Token from the 1930's, some fare tokens, and some "good for 1 drink at.." type tokens. Kinda interesting. I also have an almost complete set of the aluminum Shell Oil Co. presidents tokens along with several of the gameboard/holders for them.