1967 vs 1955 Topps Baseball .... advice needed
1420sports
Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
Hello all ....
I am thinking about trying to collect the 1967 set in PSA 7 or higher. I have two cards in PSA 8 - Kaline and Rose - and a PSA 7 Mantle.
In the 55 set I have a Ted Williams PSA 6 and Jackie Robinson PSA 5 ... I would like to tackle this set in PSA 5-7
Here are some questions ...
Besides the number/price of cards, which one would be easier to finish? Is there any trick besides finding graded lots, raw cards (in person of course), to finish the set? Any dealers or collectors who will sell 10 - 100 PSA graded cards at a time? etc, etc etc
Pretty much the standard (dumb) questions, but I have been going looking to channel my efforts into a select few sets and would like to know any and possible solutions.
Thanks in advance.
I am thinking about trying to collect the 1967 set in PSA 7 or higher. I have two cards in PSA 8 - Kaline and Rose - and a PSA 7 Mantle.
In the 55 set I have a Ted Williams PSA 6 and Jackie Robinson PSA 5 ... I would like to tackle this set in PSA 5-7
Here are some questions ...
Besides the number/price of cards, which one would be easier to finish? Is there any trick besides finding graded lots, raw cards (in person of course), to finish the set? Any dealers or collectors who will sell 10 - 100 PSA graded cards at a time? etc, etc etc
Pretty much the standard (dumb) questions, but I have been going looking to channel my efforts into a select few sets and would like to know any and possible solutions.
Thanks in advance.
collecting various PSA and SGC cards
0
Comments
In any case, I (now) examine cards for centering WITHOUT a loupe. If I can't look at it and see that it is at worst 66/33, I don't even bother examining the corners. Corners (for 8's) must be practically perfect--all green and pointy. One corner may have very slight fuzz, but anything beyond that and it becomes a 7 at best. I'm sure more tips will flow in.
Whichever set you choose, enjoy. Also a question for you--Both years happen to be Game 7 Red Sox series losers--Any reason why you want these two sets connected to this?
Eric
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
1955 is a set my fiance loves (also the reason I am collecting 33 Goudey's) by the way, I like them too which is almost as important!
I am a man now who has to get a "second opinion" on what I buy
1967 was my year of birth
With those three sets, I should be able to accomplish my HOF player set a lot easier as well
Thanks for the tip!
If I'm buying it's PRICELESS. If I'm selling, it's WORTHLESS.
Looking for 1984 Donruss -
#238 Keith Hernandez PSA 10
-----------------and
#637 Omar Moreno PSA 9 or 10.
*****
EBAY has many loupes available - all price ranges. Search for 10X 0r 20X or loupe.
The 1955 set is 206 cards, with some really massive ones like the Clemente RC, which is like $2K according to SMR, in PSA-7. Commons SMR at $25 in 7, with 50 high numbers that SMR at $45.
The 1967 set is 609 cards, the biggest card in 7 is the Seaver RC at $500. Commons are $5 in 7, and it looks like there are a little over 150 high numbers, at $9-10 each.
Total SMR in 7 of the 1955 set is about twice as much, for 1/3 the number of cards.
The kind of collecting you'd do if you did each of these sets would be very different. If you do this graded on eBay, you could buy 1955 singles without getting killed on shipping, and that's probably how you'd find your cards. I've never tried to do a set with commons as cheap as 1967, but I bet you end up buying more lots. Maybe you buy lots until it becomes doable to buy singles. In this case though, you are probably going to end up being a seller as well as a buyer, because you are going to get dupes.
I do 1956 in 7, and it's (now) hard to find anything for under SMR, and raw cards are also hard to find. I've dealt in 67's a little bit, and it doesn't seem that hard to find them raw around town, if you are willing to accept 7's.
It's an interesting choice.
Does anyone who has done these sets have any opinions about the differences?
bruce
Website: http://www.brucemo.com
Email: brucemo@seanet.com
I bought a 10x Flash Magnifier off eBay quite a while back. I haven't seen one since. I love it; others hate it. Sometimes these things are sold at shows. Try them out if you can before buying. Wish I could be more help.
If I'm buying it's PRICELESS. If I'm selling, it's WORTHLESS.
Looking for 1984 Donruss -
#238 Keith Hernandez PSA 10
-----------------and
#637 Omar Moreno PSA 9 or 10.
*****
I ALWAYS try to make multiple purchases from sellers, even if it is 2 or 3 cards at a time instead of 1. I figure I've "saved" at least $3 on s/h/i per transaction (on average). That is, instead of 300 individual card purchases, it has taken me about 100-120 checks--translates to a savings of about $450-$500 so far. Of course irrational bidding wars
BTW, is the SMR pretty much accurate for '56's? Is the premium for Team name location and high numbered series holding true when it comes to EBAY?
Eric
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
The majority of a year's set collectors are those who grew up collecting that particular year. Most grown-up collectors have a great nostalgia rush over the cards from their FIRST year of collecting. Most kids started collecting at age 8 and were through by age 13.
Follow me, now.
Eight years prior to 1967 was 1959, practically the peak of the baby boomer years. Tons of kids, tons of potential competition. Those "kids" are now 42-43 and entering their PEAK EARNING & SPENDING YEARS.
A typical 1955 collector was born in 1947, just about the first ripple of the baby boom era. Those "kids" are now 55 and worried about having enough for retirement, especially with their 401(k) and IRA taking a beating recently. The competition is going to be much less for a 1955 set.
Now, that's only the demand side of the equation. I'm sure the supply of '67s far outweigh the supply of '55s, but in the grade differential you're seeking, the supply might not be that drastically different.
Good thread, though. Makes one really think about a strategy in choosing between sets to collect.
Totally can relate to the bubble bursting on the IRA of the 55+ crowd. Wonder if the card market they pursue will see a comparable roll back in prices? I also wonder about pre WWI cards/sets. Who will collect them when their owners, presumably in their 50's grow tired of them. Will the next generation have enough of an interest to maintain those prices. I know quality never fades, and once a card is slabbed, it is slabbed and doesn't change, but I can't for the life of me ever imagine wanting to build a set pre-1933 Goudey. What's your take on the real vintage stuff?
E
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
<< <i>BTW, is the SMR pretty much accurate for '56's? Is the premium for Team name location and high numbered series holding true when it comes to EBAY? >>
Everything in this reply has to do with PSA-7. I know nothing about 8 or 6 or any other grade.
I still have a hard time answering this since I started using a snipe service. I've been doing '56 for about a year. When I started, I was bidding $18 on the $22 series, $21 on the $26 series, and $26 on the $32 series, and I was winning more cards than I was losing, and I was usually winning for a buck or two under my top.
Now if I do this, I don't win any cards. I stubbornly stuck to this, and I didn't win any cards for like a month. I haven't tried to figure out why. I assume that there are some people trying to do the whole set in a hurry, and I figured that I'd let them play through, but it is taking them a while, and I don't need *that* many more (80), so I'll be more aggressive.
Early on I decided that I was going to bid heavily on team cards, since the dated ones are low pop, and there is competition from people who aren't doing the whole set, so I got a lot of those, often for over SMR. SMR on the dated ones is $100, and I won three of them (the last three, thank goodness) in the past week or so, and one was 80% SMR, one was 100% SMR, and one was 130% SMR. Someone used BIN to get a Braves team card (centered) for over triple SMR.
Looking back at completed auctions, the set seems very strong. Keys and commons are both going over SMR often. I think it is due for increases across the board.
I think that the set registry must be responsible for this, since the times coincide.
bruce
Website: http://www.brucemo.com
Email: brucemo@seanet.com
http://www.psacard.com/articles/article_view.chtml?universeid=314&artid=3330
When I collected (before PSA) the 1933 Goudey, 1955 Topps, 51 Bowman, etc etc, these were the old cards. No ebay, only local card shops and flea markets - exciting times when my parents would take me to one. Finding a 57 Duke Snider, 56 Aaron, or a 53 Ed Bailey was a HUGE deal ..... Centering, corners, were not an issue as they are now, and if anyone can recall the monthly card mag - CPU (card prices update), there were three grades listed for cards - VG, EX, and Mint .... could go on and on about how it is different today but you get the point
It really comes down to several things when choosing a set to collect all of which has been mentioned by you guys.
I think the 67 will be a whole lot tougher, but it is worth it.
I have several 1967 cards in PSA 7 that I will be happy to sell/trade:
20 Cepeda
437 Senators Team
490 Cloniger
I also have the following SGC's
59 Terry SGC 96
64 Valentine SGC 88
601 Bryan SGC 88
I also have a bunch of ungraded cards that will grade 7.
All that being said...I would do the 1955 set. I think in the grade you're talking about...the 1955's will hold their value better.
Regards,
Alan
A major point is that there is no Mantle in '55 Topps.
I'm second guessing my decision to do '56 over '55. A '55 in top grade is nicer looking than a '56 in top grade, and 354 cards is looking like an awful lot at this point.
If I were to do a 60's set it would be 1967, no doubt.
bruce
Website: http://www.brucemo.com
Email: brucemo@seanet.com
Certain sets like the T-206 are "timeless". I love those cards and the 1914/15 Cracker Jacks as well. Anyone who is a "student of the game" can't help but be awed by some of those legends captured on cardboard.
(A fellow board member was kind enough to point out my glaring typo to me.)
Naturally, upgrading may take the balance of my life, but I'll probably then move on to aggressively finish my '68 set in 8+, and begin to pick away at a 3rd--probably '75 in 7.5+ for their rare colored borders and Red Sox AL Champs, '33 Goudey in PSA 2-5, '56 Topps in PSA 5-7, or the '40 or '41 Play Ball set. I've always thought it would be nice to have a set from every decade, thereby (most likely) filling out the Hall of Fame of Set simultaneously.
E
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
Brucemo hit the nail on the head with "able to do it in a finite time" plus NO 1955 MANTLE and vargha as well - I consider myself to be a student of the game as well and I can definitely see others on this post as the same thing, some even "mentors" - I have learned a lot in the recent time I have been posting .... plus Michele thinks it is better to be off eBay for a while
Yo E - 33 Goudey's too ????? maybe we are lost twins
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
Go figure
Sure you must have landed squarely on Mr. Campanis' Night Line clip that set things back a few more years. Too bad considering he was part of the Dodgers that broke in Jackie Rob. Did your "fun" go all the way up to John Rocker?
E
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
EJ - Thanks for your comments. I've been away from the board for 24+ hours (unashamedly doing work on ebay listings), but let me respond to your questions.
I do feel that there will be a softening in prices as the bulk of collectors "finish and move on" so to speak. A great case in point: PSA 8 star cards can be readily found for below SMR on ebay, due to supply exceeding demand, while low pop. commons go for 5-10 times SMR, again due to supply and demand. Another clue: PSA hasn't offered a 50's set registry special, have they? The lists of Registry participants on 50's sets generally pales in comparison to 60's & early 70's.
One thing to look forward to, though, is that truly "Vintage" sets/cards will become more and more like valuable art collections. I have absolutely no experience or deep knowledge in any pre-war issue, but suffice it to say, Goudey, Cracker Jack & tobacco cards will always have a significant following, both inside and outside the hard-core hobby circle. I can see non-baseball card collectors owning pristine Ruth, Dimaggio & Gehrig cards, for instance, and mounted on a wall in the family mansion.
It's more than mildly interesting to speculate whether any post WWII sets/cards will ever make the move up to "art." Obviously, any high end Mantle card ('52-'69 White Letter) will do so. Perhaps one could see the '52 cards/set making it. Beyond that, I'd say '51 Bowman and '53 Bowman Color are contenders. Also '57 Topps for it's being the first size change and being loaded with key rookies might make it, even though the design is somewhat plain. The recent 1961 HBO job on Maris fueled a lot of interest in 1961 sets.
I also believe 1967 Topps might make it based on card design and widespread popularity, but it's a longshot. If Ryan's Rookie had been in '67 (can you imagine a Seaver/Ryan Rookie?), I believe that could've propelled that set to much higher ground. (BTW, there was a small groundswell of interest in Nolan Ryan running for Texas Agriculture Commissioner a few years ago. If he ever runs for national elective office and wins, his cards will become insanely valuable. Remember the interest in Jack Kemp cards in the early 90's and how they've dropped off the table since?)
I can't see anything past 1972 ever reaching the top level. Mainly because of the demographics. The generation of people born from 1965-1980 was incredibly small by comparison to the Baby Boom. (Reason: Cuban Missle Crisis, Cold War w/Russia, War in Vietnam, hyperinflation in cost of living all kept population in check, not to mention Roe v. Wade legalizing abortion). Some call that era the Baby Bust Generation. Topps didn't know this when they were printing cards, so the supply will overwhelm the demand for next to forever, IMHO.
Bottom line, collect what you like for whatever reason you like. If it's viewed as an investment, it will go in and out of favor in cyclical form from time to time. If that happens, be prepared to sell high and buy low. [What a concept!]
<< <i>It's more than mildly interesting to speculate whether any post WWII sets/cards will ever make the move up to "art." Obviously, any high end Mantle card ('52-'69 White Letter) will do so. Perhaps one could see the '52 cards/set making it. Beyond that, I'd say '51 Bowman and '53 Bowman Color are contenders. Also '57 Topps for it's being the first size change and being loaded with key rookies might make it, even though the design is somewhat plain. >>
I think that in many cases you need pretty significant cultural context before the card really makes any sense. This is true of most of the Mantle cards.
I call the kind of attractiveness you are referring to "mother-in-law appeal". I think that a card has to be pretty nice looking before you'd show it to your mother-in-law, who almost certainly doesn't collect cards, probably doesn't have a huge interest in baseball, and may not think that much of you.
I would take '52 Bowman over '51, since the pictures are similar but the name blocks are less attractive than the autographs. I think that these are very appealing cards that my own mother-in-law would like. She likes '53 Bowman Color, but honestly I doubt that's the first one I'd pick. I think that some of the older sets are cooler looking. You can almost randomly pick one.
But going back to the topic of this thread, I think that both 67T and 55T are high on the list of most attractive post-war sets, so it's hard to go wrong from that standpoint.
bruce
Website: http://www.brucemo.com
Email: brucemo@seanet.com
The "mother-in-law" thing is interesting. Mine doesn't collect cards, is not particularly interested in baseball, but does seem to like me. At least I think she does. She has bought for me: (1) a ceramic statue of Babe Ruth, (2) porcelain Babe Ruth and Nolan Ryan cards, (3) a shadow box of baseball memorabilia and (4) a 1994 World Series ball (the series that never was).
Come to think of it, maybe she doesn't like me.
Totally agree that the demographics of post-Vietnam America changed in the early/mid 70's and the cards changed accordingly. Maybe the prices of the sets of the 50's and 60's will gradually increase the way the turn of the century stuff has. In 30 years, will the early-mid 50's cards still be more valued (proportionally) than the late 60's ('67)? It will be fun waiting to find out...
E
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.