1882 $3 gold

coindaughter

We came across a great find in Dad's stuff. I brought it home and plan to have it appraised.

Here is a picture. To me, it looks much better in person. What do you think its grade is?

1882 $3

It is really bright, and under a magnifying glass, you can see the strands of the feathers!

TomB

The image I am seeing on my monitor looks very rough, similar to how some counterfeits look. I would be wary of this piece if it were sold raw on ebay as there are quite a few fake gold pieces out there. This is a coin that you should send to ANACS or some other third party grader for authentication, it will be well worth the expense in the increased bidding. Good luck.

jtryka

Wow! Great find! I always have trouble with grading $1 and $3 gold, especially from photos. Of course, not seeing the reverse, it looks like it might be a nice AU, but it also looks like it might have been cleaned in the past, but I couldn't say for sure based on a photo.

Placid

Au. Looks cleaned in the picture.

jtryka

TomB is absolutely right, but a quick first check would be testing the weight of the piece (most counterfeiters slip up on making the weight the same since it's so tough with base metals). If you have any way to weigh it accurately, it should weigh just over 5 grams.

coindaughter

I'm trying to get a better scan. The scan really doesn't look like the coin, and I can't seem to get it better!

He bought it about 20 years ago, and we found an invoice for $995. It was graded AU, but it just seemed better to me. (Wishful thinking?) Still, if it is genuine, it is a great coin!

Placid

It's worth getting certified if only by anacs. If it's been cleaned anacs will still slab it.

darktone

It sure has the look of a counterfeit. I would do as others have said and send it to ANACS. mike

coindaughter

If I took it to a dealer, would he be able to authenticate it?

nwcs

Only if it is a dealer you really trust. Otherwise they might say it's a counterfeit and offer you bullion value for it. I have to agree, though, it does look like a spark erosion counterfeit. But it could also be other things as the scan is not always the best way to tell. If you are a member of ANA (www.money.org) you can submit to NGC without paying for NGC's collector's club.

Neil

66Tbird

I like these kind of threads, and must admit I'm getting a little better at my observation falling into the majority. I first look at the piece,make a decision, then read the thread. Having done just a very little study on this series, and havijng a piece in hand, NOT real is what came and stuck in my mind. It's just to rough in to many places. Let us know how it goes, it would be a nice find.

edit to fix logic in the reading

ajaan

Was there a name of a coin dealer on the invoice?

Placid

If a dealer tells you it genuine. Then when-if you sell it the potential buyer is going to wonder if it is real and telling them a coin dealer told you it is may not be very reassuring. I would use anacs, if ngc or pcgs determine the coin has been cleaned they will not slab it and you waste your money and time.

Anacs lets you submit coins without joining any club just go to their web site and print out a submission form or fill out the online request for them to mail you one.

UncleJoe

You are getting some excellent advice: send it to ANACS for authentification. This I feel is the area where grading services can be most helpful. Not grading but authentification. I think you would be hard pressed to sell that coin as genuine without it being slabbed by some grading service. (ACG excepted). Joe.

coindaughter

Dad bought it in February, 1982 from Paul Sims Rare Coins and Precious Metals Broker, Richmond Virginia. A quick search, it appears they are still in business.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll send it off and keep you posted.


Edited to take out incorrect link.

jom

<< <i>Dad bought it in February, 1982 from Paul Sims Rare Coins >>



Uh oh. This doesn't look good..... Have it authenticated immediately.

jom

coindaughter

Why do you say that, Jom??

kryptonitecomics

Paul Simms doesn't have the best reputation in the coin business. They sell a lot of overgraded, cleaned coins. I don't know that I have ever heard of them selling counterfits though????

1jester

I bought some coins from Sims in 1990. Many were great coins. Some were discolored (cleaned) copper cents. I was disappointed to find that out later (even though the cleaned pennies didn't "look" right, I kept them: mistake).

Flash

He bought it about 20 years ago, and we found an invoice for $995. It was graded AU, but it just seemed better to me. (Wishful thinking?)

Are you any relation to Harold and Deb?

construct

Flash, you are being mean! First her departed dad got taken to the cleaners, then people tell her that the coin is a fake, now you accuse her of being a business? I'm shocked!

Conder101

While I am a very anti-slab collector there are some coins that are so frequently counterfeited that even I think they should be professionally authenticated. The three dollar gold pieces are one of those. After the type II one dollar gold piece the three dollar golds are the most frequently counterfeited. Leon Hendrickson of Silvertowne once told me that during the metal boom of 79-80 he had literally hundreds of gold type sets (The one dollar through double eagle Liberty and Indian head sets.) brought to him that had been in collections since the 60's. Almost without exception the coins would all be real except for the Type II dollar and the three dollar gold piece.

coindaughter

Yeah, they're my aunt and uncle....

Flash, you are too suspicious! I am who I say I am. I just took a four-day trip to my mom's to sort through Dad's stuff. It was stored in ammo boxes, mostly (he was a WWII veteran and a hunter) (uh-oh, that is sounding more like Deb...). He bought mail order. He might have been had.

I wish I could share the knowledge I am getting with him.

I came here to learn, and I have learned a lot. I feel like I'm getting a handle on a few aspects of these coins.

I really appreciate all of your input. I would've never known that this is a commenly counterfieted coin without you experts alerting me. I was very excited to find this coin, but now I'm deflated a bit.

I'm anxiously awaiting the grading books that you all recommended so that I can start in on the tons of Morgans and Peace dollars he had, and see if the grade that is on them is accurate. If he got ripped off with the $3, it may be elsewhere, too.

Thanks again for all your input. It has been a big help. And if you are all not too suspicious, I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.

nwcs

Nahh, most of us aren't suspicious. You'll really enjoy going through the coins as you gain more knowledge about them. I know that some of the realities of the field will be deflating, but on the whole it is still so cool to have a piece of history in your hands. And when that history has been passed down, it's even better. My mom has a number of coins from her father and she has already said she wants them kept in the family. The value isn't all that great in the market for most of them, but who cares about that?

Neil

wallstreetman

Send to ANACS, they slab counterfeits also!

coindaughter

Geez, who is trustworthy in this biz?

TomB

ANACS slabs counterfeits, wsm?!?! Do you mean unwittingly or with a notation? If you could please personally verify a counterfeit in an ANACS slab I would be very interested. I highly doubt that you can show proof.

KoinKollector

The only time ive seen a coin slabbed as a counterfeit was at the PCGS table.

TomB

I've actually been sent a PM by one member who believes he has seen an ANACS slab with a red label that said counterfeit on it. He's only seen one, I don't recall ever seeing any or even hearing of this. Perhaps the red slabbed coin was in a PCI holder since it was a red label? I'll trust this member's memory is correct and assume I was wrong about ANACS never knowingly slabbing a counterfeit even if it is a single slab one member remembers. I had thought wsm meant ACG and not ANACS, perhaps wsm didn't.

Conder101

I could see two reasons why ANACS would knowingly slab a counterfeit. One as a reference tool for an educational organization such as the ANA or ANS or at the request of one of the major dealers/auction houses for their own internal authentication use. Two, if it was one of the series where contemporary counterfeits are collected as well as genuine pieces such as several of the state coinage series, counterfiet british halfpence, or the counterfeit conder token issues. Or such things as the 1804 and 1823 cent restrikes, or an Edward Smith 1796 half cent.