Is eBay bidding being rigged?

DesertLizard

Something is funny here.....

Over the last few weeks I have noticed some of the strangest bidding and auction reporting. I am

getting suspecious. Call me paranoid but after Worldcom, Enron, etc. why not?

1] Has anyone else noticed the how some really common date certified gold is going for ridiculous

prices? Like 10-25% OVER numismedia!

2] Has anyone noticed how there are many "sunglass" bidders who place many bids but never seem to

win anything? They have accounts in place for 6+ months but no feedback and they have left no

feedback for others. Makes one wonder!!

3] The Live auction thing has got to go. They are using internet bidding to set higher prices I

feel. Has anyone actually won anything biding from the net?

4] Can someone explain this:
http://cgi6.liveauctions.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=1844733180

What happened from 4k to 6k? Did all bidders go into a coma? Was the next increment 6k?!!

Here is another stranger one!
http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1844934595


5] Has anyone noticed one ebay gold seller proclaims everything he sells is "rare", "superb", "very

rare"? Most of what he sells are common date low MS golds. But it appears enough suckers are taking

the bait. Many with little or no buying patterns in coins.

I love this hobby but when I see this kind of it turns me off completely. Sort of like why watch

the Super Bowl if you know which team has been "picked" to win. Ther is no excitement and people

will look elsewhere for enjoyment.

Look here

DesertLizard

Sorry guys, I am new and my posting skills are not polished yet.

The links I provided will have to be cut and paste!

Next time I will do the clickable ones!

shylock

The first lot you mentioned (1877 IH PCGS MS65RB) was part of Superior's ANA floor sale so obviously nothing was rigged by Ebay here. I didn't follow this live, but my guess is the lone internet bid didn't even make the reserve, and the floor bidding started -- and ended -- with that 6K bid.

mercurynut

Its amaizing how many shill bidders there are on ebay! They always show up w/ 24 hrs left and never win anything or the seller cancels the auction with minutes left stateing the item is no longer for sale! Yet it shows back up the following week! hmmmmmmm

gmarguli

Shills can't beat you if you only bid your max. They can't beat you if you snipe.

presleyh

shill bidding is a way of life on ebay unfortunately. the best way to beat it is to know what you want to pay for an item and then quit. i lose a lot of auctions, both public and ebay. i buy restaurant equipment at public auctions and i bid like crazy up to my price, then turn away if it goes higher. drives the auctioner nuts because i dont buy into the frenzy. most of them know me around here and respect my tactics. but it is your money, know when to stop and then stop. public auctions are quite often rigged and after 100 or more i watch to see if someone really is bidding against me. it is just to easy for auctioneers to double their take by having shill bidders in the crowd. unfortunately it is human nature.

mrdq

presleyh turn on your PM's so I can ask you if you ever see commercial popcorn poppers for a good price.



tom

presleyh

mrdq i am new to this board and i dont know how to turn on pms, the main thing to look for on popcorn machines is the capacity unless you are just using it at home. i try to stay away from them because they are slow movers. sams club has a good cheap machine around 400.00. i guess i should learn more about pms.huh?

dorkkarl

absolytely positively NO question about it - shill bidding is utterly rampant on ebay. my friends and i joke around there there is actually only one seller on ebay and he has 100,000 different selling accounts.

sniping is a great defense against shillbiding. another is to just bid low all the time and cross your fingers.

ARCO

Shill bidding is common. It is hard to pick out absolutely, but there are strong warning signs it is taking place.

One of my favorite Ebay sellers (nondisclosed name) has a Shill bidder double that he uses if his coins aren't at what he feels the market should pay. He generally shoots in a bid at around bid or ask and keeps the coin if it doesn't sell where wholesale levels are. It hacks me off, but like Greg says I put in my bid and let the chips fall where they may. He has nice enough coins that I am willing to pay full retail in some cases. It is a crack up because I know the shill bidders handle and know exactly where he is at (wholesale Bid). If the shill bidder is still in the lead, and I love the coin, I just wait till the last minute and place my bid at $1.00 over BID and win every time! LOL

Other warning signs.
1) aggressive bidder with shades and/or low feedback. Usually both.
2) agressive bidder outside of his collecting history. You check his feedback and he has been buying lincoln cents, and all of a sudden is bidding large on a morgan dollar. This was easier some months back. Ebay has shortened the history period to check older, past auctions in the feedback columns.
3) check seller and shill bidder and see if they are in the same geographical area. This can only be done if both seller and shiller have coins up for auction at the same time.


Good luck, and keep at it.

Tyler

jtryka

I sell a lot of gold on eBay and I am probably one of the few that do not use shill bidders. Yet I find some of the prices I realize to be almost unbelievable on common date gold (my common dates are in the teens, generally not the 22, 24, 27, 28 type stuff). My explanation is two-fold, one I use Featured Plus on all my large gold auctions, it attracts a lot more bids and generally pays for itself 4 or 5 times over. Two, my common dates are like 14-S and 15-S in MS-62 or MS-63. They are pretty common, but the general belief by eBay bidders is that they are a lot rarer than they really are. That said, I put all my gold coins with a starting bid of face, and no reserve, so I can't help it if some buyers pay more than I would for the coin. That's just the free market in action.

PS- I always find it a coincidence when I win a Heritage auction, that I have never won with a bid below my maximum "secret" bid. I find that more disconcerting since the people running the auction know exactly what my max bid is.

DesertLizard

What I find amusing is how one seller, i honestly don't recall but they are large [maybe Heritage], had a coin for sale then up for auction 2x in almost 6 months. Never sold. They listed the same coin with a price $1,100 HIGHER on eBay and some idiot bought it using buy it now!! A shill? Who knows....maybe a set up to establish an increase in FMV so they can unload the rest of their inventory?

All in all I am disgusted by what I see. May just go back to collecting orchids. Nice cultured people. Oh I am also waiting for the inevitable federal probe into eBay for abusive practices. Won't happen you say? Tell that to Taubman and Brooks from Sotheby's!! Hehehe.

gmarguli

I always find it a coincidence when I win a Heritage auction, that I have never won with a bid below my maximum "secret" bid. I find that more disconcerting since the people running the auction know exactly what my max bid is.

From the recent ANA sale, I ended up winning a lot 25% below my max and another 22% below my max.