is PCGS the absolute end-all to grading?

goose3

Is anyone else tired of reading about how they are so great and they command so much money, blah, blah, blah.

also when someone finds a really cruddy PCGS coin with obvious damage or a blazing reason that the coin should not have been holdered there are always excuses as to why an exception was made. There should be no excuse. PCGS doesn't holder problem coins. Or they're not supposed to.

they are no better than NGC or ANACS, if anything ANACS is more strict on problem coins.

When I was looking for my '56 FE, I passed on at least 6 circulated ones in PCGS slabs because they were problem coins, dinged, corroded, etc...

just my opinion

RLinn

Say it isn't so! Unfortunately, I think there are just too many market speculators that prefer to buy the plastic instead of the coin because that is easier than learning to grade them for yourself. I have seen and purchased great coins in many different holders. I have also passed on just as many dogs in the same brand holders. But if it is about the money (and it is for lots of folks), and the market gives a premium to PCGS then we shouldn't be surprised.

michael

pcgs is not the end all to grading they are just a great company like ngc that both do a great a job!! and in my opinion have helped the market morte thanhurt it!! yes yes yes

NOW THE PROBLEM IS PRECEPTION and currently most all buyers/sellers of coins value the pcgs plastic slab above all others to the point where the plastic means more than the coin!!!!!!!!

now that is great for pcgs i mean kind of like if a rich person thinks i am great and gives me tons of money! i would take it too!!

and of course great for sellers of substandard coins in plastic holders that without the holder the coin is worth much less

and that is what is called business
sellers are giving the public what it wants and for me i could never do this but then again i am no ones judge you have to do what you have to do and live with yourself and the consequences if any

as coins are just a hobby and nothing you need to live or survive and the people whom are buying them are doing so willing in fact very willingly

++++++++just make sure if you are buying a coin you buy the coin not the holder+++++++++++++++

i am sure there will be a day of reckening but such is life and like many markets coins and otherwise life will go on so will the collecting of coins some will make huge money some will break even and have fun and lots will lose their a**

sincerely michael

merz2

goose3
You know how I feel.PCGS isn't the end all to coin gradeing.They make mistakes too.If they continue to make them,the prices realized for their slabs will start going down.IMHO

braddick

PCGS is not the final word to grading. YOU, as the collector are.
Just like Coke is not the end-all of cola drinks. Many enjoy Pepsi or even RC Cola. Liking Pepsi though does not translate though into Coke doing it all wrong.

Consumers (collectors too) vote with their pocketbooks.

shylock

Preconceptions are something I harp on all the time, in numismatics and every other part of life. They're a natural tendency of human behavior that makes certification of anything artistic, as the small engravings we call coins are, a deceptive thing.

Certification was established mainly for sight unseen purchases, the way stocks are traded. I've come to the point where I look at slabs as nothing more than protective briefcases for coins that label them with an estimate by someone who doesn't care quite as much as I do.

ARCO

Yep - If you don't worship PCGS, we need to come over and confiscated all your coins, take your photo and post it at all the large coin shows so that you can be efficiently banned from all future coin Shows. Every coin shop in American will also have a photo to bar entrance. I'm sorry but we need to permanently bar you from numismatics till the end of time!

I hear you, since I collect only circulated coins I have little need of the slabs. I too have seen so many scratchety ass cleaned pieces in PCGS holders that I wouldn't buy any slabbed coin sight unseen if my life depended on it!

Funny how the PCGS cleaned coins are in beat up old holders. The owners recognize the dog within and they stay forever in the slab which is the only way to re-sell them for any money. Every nice coin I break from the slabbed dungeon, I have a few cleaned PCGS coins that will have to stay there so that I can make my money back. LOL

Tyler

dorkkarl

why is the modern mindset to always deal in absolutes? who has the fastest car, who is the greatest athelete of all time, who is the greatest rocki band of all time, who is the richest man in the world, blah blah blah

folks seem so afraid anymore to have an OPINION on something, like, oh, i don't know, the grade of a coin maybe? are folks so unsure of themselves that they are willing to PAY for the privilege of being told what their opinion should - no MUST be?

i guess maybe i;m just too old fashioned. there was a time when everyone's opinion at least mattered for something.

JJacks

Who on this board ever claimed that PCGS was the end-all to grading??

I am one who has been a big supporter of PCGS and have never said this. PCGS coins do usually bring the biggest prices especially in certainly areas (55-D Washingtons in MS66/Franklin Halfs in 65/66, etc), that is simply a fact. I don't know of anyone here who has been claiming PCGS is all knowing and every other slab is wrong. Anyone who states modern high-end coins don't bring the most in PCGS holders is simply wrong.

Some people in their buying ads may state "PCGS Only", but that is usually because they can find the coins in PCGS if they want to, so why not? Someone one this board stated once that "Anything I want, I can find in a PCGS holder", and someone came back at him saying certain rare valuable coins are only in NGC holders. Guess what? He probably wasn't in the market for those coins!

For example, soon I plan to buy an MS66 Peace Dollar in a PCGS holder. Why only PCGS? Because I am staying with PCGS for now, and they are available in PCGS holders. If I can find PCGS MS66 Peace dollars, what is wrong with that? That's not to say I wouldn't look at any in NGC Holders, or that the ones in PCGS holders are better, but I am 100% certain I can find a nice one in a PCGS holder.

JJacks

WWBillman

braddick,

Classic post I love it.

JJacks,

I have been quoted
And you are correct, any coin "I" have wanted to purchase AND could afford to purchase have always been able to find in a PCGS slab.
No one I know ever stated PCGS is the end all to grading.

It all boils down to a combination of collector preferance, perception, and education. I do not bash NGC or ANACS coins or those who choose to collect them.

I with full knowledge of all the problems and sometimes inconsistancies with all the grading services choose to buy coins in PCGS slabs. That is not to say I collect PCGS slabs, I collect coins I like in the grades I want and they are all in PCGS slabs.

DHeath

Certification was established mainly for sight unseen purchases, the way stocks are traded. I've come to the point where I look at slabs as nothing more than protective briefcases for coins that label them with an estimate by someone who doesn't care quite as much as I do.

Paul, I think that's the only reasonable approach, and I wish I'd said that as articulately as you.

IrishMike

Call this a confession or whatever, but try this sometime. Go to a local coin show and spend some time picking up coins and discovering them again as what they are. Pick up some coins that you don't collect, you might find that you have rekindled what originally brought in collecting coins. Like I have, you might purchase some them for their history, their design, and their atristic beauty. This wasn't someting I did intentionally, I just found some time on my hands to chat with dealers, discuss coins and discover some interest in certain coins that I didn't know I had. I had started to become bored with coin collecting and in retrospect I realized this whole slabbing thing almost ruined collecting for me. Now I rarely buy a slabbed coin and I am sure to the abhorence of many, I find myself taking a hammer to many slabbed coins. The expensive coins I have purchased in slabs have for the most part been sold off and I truly don't miss them. Collecting to me has become just that again, not a contest, nothing to prove to myself, just good old fun. I could care less was another collector or grader thinks of my collections. For me they bring enjoyment and immersement in a hobby I have enjoyed since the early 50's.

goose3

some very well thought out answers guys.
of course I do not think they are, or I wouldn't own a bunch of ANACS coins.
as far as slabs go, I think I own, in order of most to least...

anacs
pcgs
ngc
old pci

dorkkarl

<< <i>Who on this board ever claimed that PCGS was the end-all to grading?? >>



dude, you totaly missed the point - twice.

point 1: it's not a question of pcgs specifically. the argument is over plastic in general

point 2: the question is not "who on this board", it is "who are the people of influence" that claim plastic is the end-all to grading. take out your coin-world form July 29, 2002, flip to page 1, you will find in the table of contents an entry for a column titled "all about commems". now flip to page 96 as indicated, and what you find instead is a column titled "raw or encapsulated". this is where the vomit gets ready to erupt. read the article. it isn't about commems at all! but what it is about is someone with a lot of influence (anthony swiatek) TELLING you not to buy coins valued at more than $100 unless they are slabbed.

HUH??? so you mean to tell me that every coin worth over $100 and there's gotta be MANY MILLIONS of such coins, gotta be slabbed before they are worhty of purchase? gee, get the feeling that somebody around here might just happen to have a he11uva lot of slabbed coins for sale???

it gets a whole lot better, he actually comes up with THREE whole examples (out of the thousands of coins he's bought and sold and dealt with) of problem coins that were raw where the buyer got ripped off for hundreds of dollars. EVER SEEN THE ASKING PRICE ON SWIATEK'S COINS? stop by his booth at a show some day, and you tell me who the rip off artist is.

the article babbles incessantly about how important it is to buy only slabbed coins, and barely mentions commems at all! so why didn't the table of contents read "more propaganda to get you to buy plastic"???



<< <i>Anyone who states modern high-end coins don't bring the most in PCGS holders is simply wrong. >>



spoken like someone truly passionate about his plastic. SO, what your saying is that anyone who has an OPINION that there are some high-end coins that don't bring the most in PCGS plastic is wrong, just plain wrong. i'd like to know how you rounded up every sale of every high-end modern coin and discovered that not-a-one of em was in a different holder than pcgs. why do you think someone's opinion can't differ from your w/out them being simply wrong?



<< <i>If I can find PCGS MS66 Peace dollars, what is wrong with that? >>



the point is: you didn't find them! somebody else did. then they got it slabbed. all you did was buy what someone else found, and that is why you miss out on so much of the joy of collecting coins.

JJacks

Oh Boy!

Here we go!

First off all, please reread the topic title. It has "PCGS" in it. Not NGC or anyone else. This topic was about PCGS being the end-all to grading. It was NOT about slabbing in general (at least not the topic title). I answered that question. Once again, the topic was NOT about slabbing in general!!!

If a dealer is telling people not to buy coins over $100 if they aren't slabbed, he is just trying to caution people. I would never say that you shouldn't buy a valuable coin unslabbed if you know what you are doing. You also should not buy a slabbed coin if you don't know what you are doing. I tell you what though, a local coin dealer has a raw Peace dollar graded MS66 by him for $500. I can buy a PCGS one for $500 or less. Which one is less risky? The 66 may or may not be 66, and in 65, it is a fairly common coin worth $60-75.

SO, what your saying is that anyone who has an OPINION that there are some high-end coins that don't bring the most in PCGS plastic is wrong, just plain wrong. i'd like to know how you rounded up every sale of every high-end modern coin and discovered that not-a-one of em was in a different holder than pcgs. why do you think someone's opinion can't differ from your w/out them being simply wrong?

If you pay any attention at all to modern slabs, you will quickly learn that 95+% of the highest prices realized for modern coins in specific grades are for PCGS coins. Ask any high-end modern dealer such as supercoin or wondercoin about what holder they would like a high grade coin in. This is not my opinion, it is market fact. It is like saying the Nasdaq has alot of tech stocks. If you hang around modern coins for a while, you will realize that this is correct.

Please don't go off critizing people for buying slabbed coins. I wouldn't buy from a dealer who is a con artist, or charges prices through the roof. I know of various price guides (including prev. sales on ebay) to go by, and have only regretted a couple of many coin purchases I ever made, most of those early in my days of collecting.

JJacks

EVillageProwler

That is not to say I collect PCGS slabs, I collect coins I like in the grades I want and they are all in PCGS slabs

Allow me to stir the pot of controversy for a bit...

Let's all stipulate that the market trades NGC and ANACS slabs at a discount to PCGS slabs, ok? If your claim is that you focus on the coin -- i.e., the coin is the primary objective -- then it makes sense that for two coins identical in beauty, grade and whatever else that pleases you about the coins themselves, you'd obviously want to buy the one that costs less, right?

So, then, why would you want to pay MORE for a coin in a PCGS slab if you could pay LESS for one of equal greatness that happens to be in a non-PCGS slab?

I buy the coin. I could care less if it were raw or slabbed. I scrutinize a coin more carefully if it were raw (or in a slab w/o adequate warranty), but I more or less view slabs as incidental when deciding which coin to buy and how much to pay. And, I love it that I can pick off superb coins just because they're not in the best plastic. Unfortunately, I cannot do this too often with the series I collect!

EVP

dorkkarl

<< <i>First off all, please reread the topic title. It has "PCGS" in it. Not NGC or anyone else. This topic was about PCGS . . . . >>


friend, the beautiy of these forums is that the topics evolve. sorry, but this IS about plastic in general. it's like what makes a democracy so great - people can talk it through, and you may not end up where you started, but at least your voice is heard



<< <i>If a dealer is telling people not to buy coins over $100 if they aren't slabbed, he is just trying to caution people. I would never say that you shouldn't buy a valuable coin unslabbed if you know what you are doing. You also should not buy a slabbed coin if you don't know what you are doing. I tell you what though, a local coin dealer has a raw Peace dollar graded MS66 by him for $500. I can buy a PCGS one for $500 or less. Which one is less risky? The 66 may or may not be 66, and in 65, it is a fairly common coin worth $60-75. >>


the problem comes about when you use phrases such as "it may or may not be a 66". there are no absolutes in grading! so pcgs says its a 66. them saying it is makes it so? you really should crack out ten 66 coins and send them back in and see how many come back 66. based on the experiences of my friends, i think you'd be in for a rude awakening. a lot of times, 66 really IS 65. PS: i do have to qualify that i have never personlaly tried this experiment, but know of many who have, much to their dismay.





<< <i>If you pay any attention at all to modern slabs, you will quickly learn that 95+% of the highest prices realized for modern coins in specific grades are for PCGS coins. Ask any high-end modern dealer such as supercoin or wondercoin about what holder they would like a high grade coin in. This is not my opinion, it is market fact. >>


i still insist this satement is exactly the type of propagada that serves only to mislead. if it is such a "fact", prove it! WHERE are you getting these statistics? a gut feeling? well that is not a fact, it is a gut-feeling, which is just an opinion. i am just trying to say that spewing out statements such as "all of something is something, and that's a fact" or "95+% of somethings are so-and-so" has no truth behind it unless you can prove it, but the zombies out there who read that sort of thing and fall for it - just might come to believe it, regardless of whether its true or not.



<< <i>Please don't go off critizing people for buying slabbed coins. >>


buying slabbed coins isn't the problem, buying slabbed grades is. and unfortunately, the misinformed think that all that matters is the grade. i thought the hobby was "coin collecting", not "slabbed grade collecting"

KS

crito

So, then, why would you want to pay MORE for a coin in a PCGS slab if you could pay LESS for one of equal greatness that happens to be in a non-PCGS slab?

this sounded oddly familiar to me, then I remebered where I saw it before, an ACG ad:

"ACCUGRADE coins offer such an incredible value that every ACG coin sold is a sale that the Majors cannot meet or beat, so they tell you that ACG coins are 'overgraded.' "

LOL

BigD5

How about the majority of modern coins slabbed by pcgs will realize a higher price than their ngc and anacs counterparts? C'mon, pcgs graded coins do realize more money in certain series (especially, modern). If you want proof, do an Ebay search etc. That's a fact of the coin market, in general. In the case of the ms/66 Peace dollar, my suggestion would be to hunt down a PQ ms/65. I wouldn't waste/spend the money for a common coin in a high grade. Grading can be sooooo arbitrary. Just because pcgs says it's a 66, doesn't make it so. An attractive 65 for 20% of the cost of the 66 seems logical, from a collecting standpoint anyway. All the grading services' opinions have to be taken for what they are. Opinions. Qualified opinions. The number on the slab doesn't quantify eye appeal or desirability.

keets

hey karl, i kinda think the thread is asking questions targeted specifically at PCGS slabs. the only reason other slabs are mentioned is as a comparison. it seems what goose is soliciting is opinions on why PCGS seems to command a higher resale and why a PCGS holder has a higher confidence factor than other holders. good questions with difficult answers.

al h.

dorkkarl

<< <i>why a PCGS holder has a higher confidence factor than other holders >>


this is the whole point of what i'm trying to question. DOES pcgs have a higher confidence factor? WHY is that just assumed? or is the holy mantra of pcgs just bandied about more due to superior marketing, etc. personaly, i ain't got NO MORE confidence in pcgs than ngc or acg or raw coins for that matter.

fella's, i still insist that statements to the effect that you;re better off buying this slab or that slab or its gotta be pcgs - these kinds of comments detract from the one subject of real importance: you MUST leart to grade coins for YOURSELF, because ultimately it is YOUR opinion that will matter most to YOU. i am just dismayed at the incredible lack of ability of folks to grade their own coins, and that includes most of the dealers i talk to.

i've tried this experiment many times, walk up to a delaer with nothing but plastic, pull 2 coins of the same date, type, etc, but one graded 65 and one graded 66 (and priced $1000 apart) then ask him to point out SPECIFICALLY what makes one coin better than the other. if you need a good laugh some time, try it.

btw, this is a good thread. i seriously think these types of open discussions are valuable for the coin collecting community. but it is the opportunity to OPENLY EXPRESS opinions that makes it so valuable. certified grades, by definition, preclude that opportunity. if you don't believe, tell a dealer somtime that his ms-66 peace dollar only grades ms-65 in your opinion.

K S

MICHAELDIXON

goose3,
I know you are being sarcastic! You and I both know that PCGS IS the absolute end-all grading service. They can't help if coins tone after being slabbed or if the sender inadvertently puts their thumbs on the coins before they send them in!

wallstreetman

Reputations are built, ACG has worked hard on theirs also!

TRADERBOBZ

I only wished they made more mistakes,for the simple reason of price realization. if they continue to holder problem coins,(mistakes)
the coins that are in these holders would be more realistic to the money,and would be a little easier to afford. as we all know if you took the same coin and grade,put them in the top 3 holders??
you know what 1 would bring the most money.

WWBillman

What do you suggest everyone to tell new collectors? Old collectors branching out in the hobby? Type set collectors who purchase one of every type coin minted? Old collectors returning to the hobby after being ripped by dealer’s years ago?

Grading services are a sham and until you have been in the hobby 20 years and learn to grade every coin you want to buy to heII with you.

I guess we all cannot be as perfect as the elite and educate ourselves on grading every single different series ever minted by the US. If we could I guess we would then also be able to shun the slabs and be true collectors. Then after we are done being true collectors and die our heirs can explain to the dealers how educated we were and they need to trust our assigned grades and sell off our collection to all the honest dealers waiting in line with pockets full of cash. Or maybe you just thought you were a well-educated true collector but all you ended up with was a bunch of junk your heirs can sell off for coffee money.

Are you aware of how many “true collectors” were taken advantage of on a daily basis by coin dealers prior to third party grading? Dealers selling cleaned, AT, or over graded coins at multiples of their value. It is a well proven FACT collectors cannot trust dealers. That was one of the biggest reasons third party grading evolved. Coins bought/sold/traded sight unseen was a byproduct of that.

Coin collecting is not a hobby reserved for the elite few. There are many collectors without the time and or resources to become the perfectly educated “True Collector”.

I do not have the resources to educate myself in the medical field to be a doctor. Does that mean if me or someone in my family gets sick and an aspirin does not make them well they should just die? I would hope not. There are experts in that field I choose to trust based on their education and reputation. There are also so called experts I choose not to trust.

We cannot all be perfect and do not always have the time to educate ourselves in all the aspects of grading every type coin the US has ever minted. Does that mean we should be excluded from the hobby or just be left to pay for our mistakes? Or like anything else in life can we not find experts within the field who based on reputation and education we can put our trust in as far as a technical grade and buy those certified coins that have the eye appeal we like.

MS 66, 67, and 68 coins do exist. Should those coins be reserved for only the elite who can grade them. Can an inexperienced collector in coin grading not own them because he cannot personally tell the difference between a MS66 & MS67? Should that collector be restricted to buying MS65 coins because they can be bought at a fraction of the price or be called a fool if he chooses to put some of his trust in a professional company like PCGS and purchase them?

If a collector based on his expereance decides his trust and money is better served by only buying PCGS graded coins does that make him a fool open to criticism from the True Collectors?

All experts in every field makes mistakes and or disagree with each other on occasion but does that also mean they are no longer deserving of any of our trust or confidence?

OK everyone that cannot grade the coins they collect and chooses to find and put their trust in a reputable third party grading service for a technical grade when making their decision to buy a coin is from now on excluded from the hobby and cannot buy any coins until they can grade them all themselves. If you do not exclude yourself from the hobby all us True Collectors are going to tell you how stupid you are and you are a sham just like slabs.

dbldie55

Huh?

keets

karl

take your experiment one step further and rig something up to conceal the entire slabs of the coins your asking your dealer to examine, leaving only the coin and no way to identify the slabbing company so no bias is involved.

if you give some thought to that, you come to realize how ridiculous the statement "buy the coin not the holder" is. none of us can look at a holdered coin without preconcieved ideas relating to each particular company influencing our judgement of the coins inside the holder. the same goes for the inserts on holders.

i can only speak for myself, but when i view a slabbed coin i see the assigned grade, identify the company slab and then the process of my evaluation begins. the trick being that it's all subconscious!! in the perfect world all coins would be observable only with a sale price and then i could make a clear judgement of whether to buy a coin or not without other factors jumbling up my thought process.

shylock summed it up well in his post. a slabbed coin is already identified for variety and other qualities, one of which is percieved grade. in part, the original intention was to allow coins, raw coins, to be bought/sold/traded sight unseen with a degree of confidence. to that extent slabs have served a useful purpose. and the degree of confidence among the various companies is rather broadly divided. i'd have to say that PCGS seems to lead the pack followed by NGC with the rest still positioning themselves.

one thing i find ironic in all this is that as a general rule most of the companies get everything right on a coin except for the numerical grade!! we hold them all to such a high standard. on a percentage basis, one of us with way too much time needs to research how often they miss a variety, PR or MS designation, get a wrong date/MM or other error. i'm sure the figure would be quite low. it's the esoteric grade designation that ends us all up in a squirrel cage!!!!!!!!

al h.

Coin Finder

I think PCGS out marketed all other slabbers in the beginning. They were good at selling the "sizzle" so to speak. This made dealers better able to promote their coins regardless of what grade they were, and the spark of Third Party Grading became a flame and then became a fire. I think the one factor that sold them better than anyone was the concept of consensus grading. Three graders then a finalizer. Wow!! 4 people agree on this coins Ave. grade. This somehow translated into an undisputable grade which we know is simply not true.

Why Mark Saltzberg left to form NGC is really where the truth is. Anyone really know???

Tbig

dorkkarl

<< <i>Are you aware of how many “true collectors” were taken advantage of on a daily basis by coin dealers prior to third party grading? Dealers selling cleaned, AT, or over graded coins at multiples of their value. It is a well proven FACT collectors cannot trust dealers. That was one of the biggest reasons third party grading evolved. Coins bought/sold/traded sight unseen was a byproduct of that. >>


OK, so dealers no longer sell cleaned and AT and overgraded coins in plastic??? and you know what? gee, somehow before 3d party grading came about, there were a he11uva lot of collectors who trusted dealers enough to buy a he11uva lot of coins. to the point, pull out the slabs you bought in '89, when plastic was hyped as the end-all-solution to the grading problem, and tell me how much money you lost on them. I was there, and got reamed by the plastic gods.



<< <i>There are many collectors without the time and or resources to become the perfectly educated “True Collector”. >>


your right, those are the fools who are willing to spend to much just because it's in plastic, and drive up prices of normal common coins (re: state quarters, sacagaweas, buffalo dollars, etc....) to absurd prices. whose really getting ripped off - the people who spend to much on a cleaned coin, or the ones who spend too much on overhyped coins in plastic?



<< <i>We cannot all be perfect and do not always have the time to educate ourselves in all the aspects of grading every type coin the US has ever minted. Does that mean we should be excluded from the hobby or just be left to pay for our mistakes? >>


yes



<< <i>MS 66, 67, and 68 coins do exist. Should those coins be reserved for only the elite who can grade them. Can an inexperienced collector in coin grading not own them because he cannot personally tell the difference between a MS66 & MS67? Should that collector be restricted to buying MS65 coins because they can be bought at a fraction of the price or be called a fool if he chooses to put some of his trust in a professional company like PCGS and purchase them? >>


absolutely



<< <i>If a collector based on his expereance decides his trust and money is better served by only buying PCGS graded coins does that make him a fool open to criticism from the True Collectors? >>


NO question about it



<< <i>OK everyone that cannot grade the coins they collect and chooses to find and put their trust in a reputable third party grading service for a technical grade when making their decision to buy a coin is from now on excluded from the hobby and cannot buy any coins until they can grade them all themselves. >>


i love this idea!!! then the prices of coins might just settle back to where they SHOULD be so that true collectors could once again afford them



<< <i>in part, the original intention was to allow coins, raw coins, to be bought/sold/traded sight unseen with a degree of confidence >>


friend, i agree, except that this was a very SMALL part of the original intention. by far the largest part of the original intention was to MAKE MONEY for the owners of pcgs



<< <i>i'd have to say that PCGS seems to lead the pack followed by NGC with the rest still positioning themselves. >>


i agree in terms of the hype involved. however, when it comes to buying coins, which should ONLY be done sight-seen in this old collectors opinion, pcgs is exactly as valuable as acg, which is to say it is somebody's OPINION. again and again, i have to insist that a grade is an OPINION, and if you don't learn how to form your own, you'll always be a target for being taken advantage of

just my thoughts, not meant to offend anyone. all i can say is that after 35 years, i feel like i know a wee bit about the hobby, and have seen all the tricks used to rip people off - cleaned coins, altered ones, repaired coins, colorized coins, laser-treated coins, and the all-persavisive plasticized coins.

TwoSides2aCoin

Yes, I'm guilty of digging up old threads.

ms70

Let's just hope banning isn't retroactive.

HeatherBoyd

@ms70 said:
Let's just hope banning isn't retroactive.

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Yes, I'm guilty of digging up old threads.

Those who go looking for trouble are likely to find it.