1933 Saint Sells for $7.59 Million - You've Got To Be Kidding
Typetone
Posts: 1,621 ✭✭
OK, the Saint sold for $7.59 Million including buyer's fee according to Sothebys web page.
You've got to be kidding! MS65 Saints (if this even is an MS65) are common as dirt. 1933s were produced by the truckload. They were melted down by Presidential order. A few fell through the cracks. So, a mint error is worth $7.59 Million? Fine, if someone is willing to pay that much, then there it is. But it sure looks like someone got sold to me. So, you classic guys, if we ever find the 76 no mintmark proof IKE that President Ford theoretically owned, and it sells for $50 thousand or $100 no hooting and hollering
.
Greg
You've got to be kidding! MS65 Saints (if this even is an MS65) are common as dirt. 1933s were produced by the truckload. They were melted down by Presidential order. A few fell through the cracks. So, a mint error is worth $7.59 Million? Fine, if someone is willing to pay that much, then there it is. But it sure looks like someone got sold to me. So, you classic guys, if we ever find the 76 no mintmark proof IKE that President Ford theoretically owned, and it sells for $50 thousand or $100 no hooting and hollering
.Greg
0
Comments
AND...the word "on the street" is that there are probably 20 or so of these hanging around somewhere. I got it at a few orders of magnitude lower eventually.
Do you have any basis in fact for what you say?
I will give a dollar for the '76 Ike.
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
A famous, unique coin is certainly worth lots, millions even. To me this '33 Saint ranks up there with the 1804 dollar or the 1913 nickel.
I can't see why there wouldn't be several more, even 20 or 30. I guess they weren't owned by the King thouth, nor are they clearly legal.
So you're saying that you weren't the underbidder?
I would MUCH rather have the 33 Saint than the 1804 dollar.
The no mintmark Ike would be sweet. I am seriously considering
getting one of the Denver Ikes made from the wrong (silver) planchet.
Do these interest you? Do you have one?
-KHayse
As for the Ike, I have had an image of a 1933 Saint on my home page since the day I created the first one over 7 years ago. Never had an image of Ike, nor wanted one.
<< <i>For some reason I have a hard time comparing a Saint to an Ike. Maybe Beauty and the Beast would be a comparable statement. I will give a dollar for the '76 Ike. >>
I've got to go with dblie55 on this one.
The Saint is a cornerstone of Numismatics. The Ike?
-Well... not so much so.
peacockcoins
You would rather have the Saint than an 1804 proof Bust Dollar. Can't agree with you there. Proof Bust dollars are rare, rare, rare, numismatic masterpieces. As far as I can tell there were only about 50 proofs made of all dates. I would want one any day I could afford one. The Saint is common as dirt. The 1933s were made by the zillions. A few escaped the furnance. This one, not even a very great example, was one of the survivors. Let's call this what it is a mint error, period. Yes, mint errors are valuable, but at $7.6 Million for a common design and common coin, forget it. If I could afford it, I wouldn't buy it, but use the money on some truly rare regular issues.
I would be interested in a silver D-Mint IKE. I don't have one. However, at several thousand dollars I would probably pass. Not that much of an error collector, and if buying an IKE, I would rather spend the money on a nice MS67 C/N piece. Yet, it is much more interesting contemplating how the Denver mint made a silver IKE, when they were never delivered any silver planchets, then it is contemplating how a few 33 Saints escaped the blast.
Steve:
You are probably right, the person who bought it may well make a million. After all there is a sucker born every minute
Carl:
Agree 100% on the 1804 proof Bust Dollars. Don't really agree about the 1913 Proof Lib 5c. Again, we are talking about a high priced mint error (or maybe even a crime). Although a $1+ million it doesn't seem as bad a deal as the Saint. If you want to invest in a rare beautiful Lib 5c buy a 12S in MS66, and spend the savings on the bust dollar.
Dbldie:
I would think a great collector of copper/nickel coins like you could find a place in his heart for a few IKEs.
To Everyone Else:
Come on convince me that the 33 Saint is anything other than an error. Geez, the Washinton/Sacs are more interesting.
Greg
The mintage of the '33 was 445,500. This is the only one that will ever publically be in a collection (outside of the Smithsonian). With all of the publicity this coin has had in the regular press recently, and in the numismatic press for 65+ years it will always be valuable. I don't know how you can call this an error though, it was struck as a circulating coin that was not released.
The 1913 Lib Nick is another story, and the only one that has my interest. Still not sure it wasn't legally minted, just need someone to give me some information that can contradict the information I have from the mint.
I call it an error because it was supposed to be destroyed and wasn't. Someone made a mistake. I believe that to be an error, though that is probably not the true numismatic defintion of error. BTW, you have a full set of IKEs? Now that is a revelation. Not certified, I hope
Greg
The fact that there are zillions of Saints has absolutely nothing to do with the value or desirability of the 1933 Saint, nor is it considered a mint error. The fact that the Saint is a common design has nothing to do with it's value either. This is the 1 and only 1933 Saint in the world that is now legal to own, has a fabulous history and pedigree, has been considered a very valuable coin for a long time, and has always been a legendary US rarity.
How can one even compare an Ike dollar, ANY Ike dollar, to a coin like the 1933 Saint, it's not even remotely in the same ballpark.
Dragon
A rarity, perhaps. Worth $7.6 Million, forget it. The comparison to the IKE was obviously in jest. Comparision to the 1804 Bust Dollar is serious. Take the Bust hands down.
Greg
<< <i>Complete Ike set? Didn't pay more than $32 I hope.
Speaking of Ikes:
I was looking at the original order form for the 1971-S Ikes today. $3 for the uncirculated and $10 for the proof. I am sure I am not in the set for over issue price. ($1 for the P/D)
I think I will add that to my collection. It is neater than the coins.
Yes they are not certified. None of my sets are certified except the Nickel set I am starting and the State Quarter set I am doing. How much would it cost to certify complete sets of all coins from 1878-Date Dollars, 1892-Date (dimes, quaters,halves), 1882 - date for nickels, 1805-date for cents, Half cents, two cents three cent nickels .... NOT WORTH IT, I like the Dansco's.
Nice play. Notice you didn't say you had all those sets, just asked how much it would cost to certify.
Greg
Part of any collectables value is its ultimate rarity or uniqueness (in this case). While an 1804 dollar is considered a legendary US rarity and highly significant coin, there are also many thousands of Bust dollars out there, and a dozen or more other people that can also own an 1804 dollar other than you.
When you're talking about coins like 1804 dollars, 1913 Liberty nickels, 1822 Half Eagles, or a 1933 Saint, the value is whatever it last sold for at auction. You may not think $7.6 mil is worth it, but try to buy another, at any price.
Dragon
I'll take the Saint, thank you. It's a real coin. A mistake that it fell into collectors' hands, yes. A mint error in the usual sense of the term? An emphatic NO!
Jim
I don't have much to add to my arguement, but would like to disagree with one of your comments. There were not thousands of Bust dollar proofs to the best of my knowledge. As far as I can tell there were less than 50 minted of all dates combined. Those coins are real rarities.
Greg
However, our opinions do not effect the rare coin market and that is where the value is determined. The St. Gaudens has now sold for more than any other coin and will probably hold the record for a while. It is unique and that most likely has driven the price to more than 50% more than the previous record.
Strong opinions tend to generate similar responses, but on balance you have to look at the economics in my mind. I also agree that this coin will most likely be resold at a significant profit in the next year. I am guessing that a syndicate purchased the coin to resell. Next stop, 10 Million Dollars. Just MHO.
PCSG put it in a MS65 holder and everyone involved made such a big stink over the coin it was bound to bring the cash it did. IMO, teh 65 was a little too high and I seriously think more than one of these coins is floating around.
But, the buyer wanted the coin and paid for it. I am sure everyone involved is happy.
Just because the government never legalized them, still does not mean they are not out there. And if there are more out there, with proper legal backing the owner can get there coin slabbed by PCGS and get it sold at a legal auction.
The coin that sold is rare, no doubt of that. Would I buy it? No, I really don't care for the St.G's. I'd much rather put my money in Morgans if I had that much extra.
Anyway, my opinion is just that.
<< <i>Just because the government never legalized them, still does not mean they are not out there. And if there are more out there, with proper legal backing the owner can get there coin slabbed by PCGS and get it sold at a legal auction. >>
Can anyone list any possible legal backing for this? Not likely to have another export license.
but I just don't understand the psychology of it. Why
does it work?
This auction was well advertised. Anyone who could possibly
want this coin was aware that it was for sale. You're going
to pay more than any other person for it and then try to sell it.
The only possible reason this could work is that there would be
more publicity for the selling price (7.59Million) than for the
coin coming to auction.
-KHayse
What I ment is this....
"Money talks" "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" "I have friends in high places"
In America people can get the impossible done. OJ really was innocent. Warren Buffet started a $37 Billion business with a $2,500 loan from his mother in law.
Until recently this coin didn't "exsist" either. Sure its rare, no dount about it. BUT!!! Are there more? Can they one day be slabbed and sold at auction? Will this happen? Did this person buy a multi million dollar one of a kind coin?
Mintage totals for this coin are listed at 445,500 pieces. So going by popular theory, 0.00021% of the original production avoided the melt. Heck, I'd lke to believe that deep in my heart, but I just can't.
Same goes for the 1964 Peace dollars, there is supposed to be a few of those out there, but don't expect to see them in a slab and public auction anytime soon.
The legal system in this country is very strange, nothing is set in stone.
I would also wager to say someday in the future a 64 Peace Dollar will be slabbed.
Never is a long time away.
Camelot
The no mintmark Proof Ike exists, and I have seen it. It resides in a collection (not the mystery guy) and will most likely never be sold. I have sold this person some outstanding high end Ikes years ago, and have tried to buy them back for 3-4 times what I sold them for. They are not for sale.
The no mintmark proof is an ok coin, maybe a PF63-64, but definitely no mint mark.
Alan Hager, of Accugrade fame, sold the coin to him about 12-15 years ago.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
so the saint is the choice for me
sincerely michael