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Stacks selling Cheerios sacs on cards without the die marker
1madman
Posts: 1,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
Stacks has 2 auctions coming up with the sac + cent on Cheerios cards, and both do not appear to have the obverse die marker, and don’t have the right “look” of real enhanced tail feather coins. And they have the gall to describe them as the Cheerios tail feather variety. This is why auction houses need to verify what they sell, and open the package to verify. Someone is gonna get burned on these.
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Good catch. You’re probably right. I wonder if the packaging is authentic…
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Hold on. Let me call someone. @CaptHenway
Who's going to call Stacks and tell them? We nominate you @1madman 😂 🤣
Oddly enough, while I was waiting to submit coins to pcgs at the ANA in August, a gentleman sitting next to me at the pcgs table was submitting a sealed Cheerios card with the sac + cent. He was gracious enough to let me examine the dollar through the packaging with my loupe, and it too was in rough shape without the die marker, similar to these stacks coins.
I’m getting the feeling that there are fakes of these being made and trickling onto the market. Years ago, every single one of these was the real deal enhanced tail feather variety. Now, almost all I see are the normal sac dollars in that Cheerios packaging.
Captain, what have you seen lately as far as an increase in sealed cards hitting the market, or higher than usual plain (non enhanced) sacs in them?
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Our team is looking into it.
-Elliot (of Stack's Bowers)
2026 ANA Young Numismatist of the Year
You might well be right, but it could also be that a lot of the coins still in the packaging are there for a reason.
There have always been non-enhanced tail feathers Cheerios dollars (not many, but they existed), and perhaps if someone had a sealed coin that was missing the die markers then they left it in the packaging in order to maximize the sales price from unsuspecting (uneducated) buyers.
Do the non-enhanced tail feather SAC's get attributed by PCGS NGC ANACS if they are submitted in the packaging as depicted by these Stacks auctions?
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Rather than opening the package, I’d try to cut a flap in the cardboard from the back of the piece. That way, you could open the flap to see the tail feathers, and then close it back up so you still have a sealed coin in the original holder.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We have withdrawn them and will reoffer after 3rd party grading.
Good job @1madman ! 👍 👍
Not all cheerios bucks are prototype reverse, yet they get slabbed as such. The examplesget certified just by being in package & gets authenticated without proper die diagnosis. Buy the coin not the cereal container. Thats cool you pulled them for further study. They'll do much better freed from their current state as one never knows until a slice in package has occurred.
For those that need to know what to look for:
Just saw this. Will study tomorrow.
That's impressive if the packaging is counterfeit. The lack of perforations on the top and bottom are a red flag. I believe most, if not all, have some sign of where they were separated from the larger sheet. Both of these are very clean cut.
Nice work identifying these for Stacks, gentlemen. I'd hate to buy one of these in "original" packaging, only to find I have a normal coin purchased at abnormal prices!
To restate the obvious, it is important to know what you are buying!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Solid work all around and proper response by SB
Good morning all.
As others have confirmed, both of these dollar coins are lacking the obverse die marker I discovered on the coat below the date. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that neither of these coins have the "Reverse of 1999" prototype reverse.
That said, I think it would be foolish to send them to a TPG and destroy the original packaging. The original packaging, if intact, adds considerable value to these otherwise normal coins. THE ORIGINAL PACKAGING IS THE CO)LLECTIBLE, NOT THE COINS! Over the years I have bought and sold original packages containing both kinds of dollars. In my opinion, an original package with the non-prototype dollar is worth in the neighborhood of $1,000. I would not pay you the cost of the slabbing for a non-prototype dollar out of the original packaging. Your mileage may vary.
As to the holders themselves, I see no reason to doubt them, but I would like to see the cut edges at the tops and the bottoms. The photos shown were injudiciously cropped by somebody who did not know better. They came in long strips intermingled with just the cents, and were cut apart by a machine that then dropped one holder into a cereal box below. Here is a 2024 eBay sale showing such a section of the strip.
So, Stacks, if you are still listening, let me strongly suggest that you talk to the consignor and then RELIST the two lots AS IS, only this time catalogue them as containing the non-prototype reverses. I think that you would be fulfilling your obligation to preserve the consignor's value this way. And if you do not know who I am, tell QDB that Tom DeLorey says Hi. I am a contributor to MANY of his books.
Tom DeLorey
Posting this in order to try to increase the chances of @StacksBowersGalleries seeing your post.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The way a thread was meant to be! 👍 👍
How hard would it be to counterfeit the Cherios Sac holder using regular issue coins?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I have seen (on eBay) one painfully obvious fake packaging job.
I don't want to tell the crooks how to do it better, but I honestly don't think that anybody could ever do it convincingly.
It takes a trained eye, that's for sure. Plus, many of the pictures we see on auction sites (eBay) are usually lousy and blurry and don't show what we need to see.
I might be alone here, but I think that's exactly what these are. As @1madman has said, they don't have the look. Luster and toning seems off compared to other cheerios examples. Combine that with what appears to be a clean cut edge on the holder. I don't think it's a cropped image that is making it look that way. Perhaps @StacksBowersGalleries could let us know if part of the holder was cropped off in their images.
Here is one I came across where someone used a cheerios cent holder and added a dollar coin. It appears they tried to use a lamination machine to reseal the coins. It was quite obvious what has been done, but you only have to fool one person I guess.
I understand your skepticism, but I will bet you $100 that they are original. Loser sends a $100 donation to The March of Dimes. They don’t work on Polio anymore, but when I was 9 they paid for a surgery that allowed me to walk unassisted. Stacks-Bowers will have to settle the bet.
A noble cause for sure, and I would suggest anyone donate if they can even outside of a wager. If Stack's confirms the images are cropped and shows us the edge, then I agree they are almost certainly original packaging even if the coins look a bit off to me.
I don't know if it means anything, but for what it's worth, both have the same printing defect.
This is a great photo because it shows (in this instance) the coins are plastered to the card itself under 1 layer of plastic. The authentic version has the 2 coins protected together in a piece of plastic, then that piece is plastered to the card. In essence two layers of protection.
The added plastic “capsule” allowed for excellent preservation on the sac to prevent certain forms of black spotting/tone.