Grading question

Morgan13

I am adequate at grading silver coins to a certain level. A collector level not a grader level.
One question I have been pondering is how does luster grazing affect the overall grade.
To clarify a little more, let's say a proof WLH is beautiful with basically no hits or dings but a couple of minor spots of rub is evident.
How does that affect the grade?
Little to none or would it lose a point or two?
Here is an example. Look at the sun.
How would a professional grade view that?
Would it go from a 67+ to a 67 or to a 66+. Or would it not matter?

coinbuf

Biggest mistake most collectors make is focusing on how many marks a coin has. You have to grade the totality of the coin not just how many marks are present. Nobody can answer your question from the partial obv photo you supplied.

Morgan13

@coinbuf said:
Biggest mistake most collectors make is focusing on how many marks a coin has. You have to grade the totality of the coin not just how many marks are present. Nobody can answer your question from the partial obv photo you supplied.

I believe that my question can be answered with the example I have shown.
Im not asking anyone to grade this coin. What I am asking, to clarify things a little more, is when looking at a superb gem proof as an example and its possibly up in the 67-68 grade profile which would mean it basically has no marks just a little scuff or two like I used in my example does it matter?
I dont think grading is as easy as counting marks on the coin. I do however, think there are technical aspects to grading. So my question is technical. I think a mistake alot of collectors make is not being patient.
So if the coin has an overall superb "look" but a couple of tiny rubs are evident how would they affect the grade?

MFeld

Not surprisingly, Proof coins are far less likely than circulation strikes to exhibit “scuffs”. Not knowing what the subject coin looks like in hand, my guess is that the mark(s) on the sun would knock off a point or so from the grade.

Morgan13

@MFeld said:
Not surprisingly, Proof coins are far less likely than circulation strikes to exhibit “scuffs”. Not knowing what the subject coin looks like in hand, my guess is that the mark(s) on the sun would knock off a point or so from the grade.

Thank you @MFeld.
I am considering purchasing a pricey to me proof set. The WLH is magnificent looking in images which is the first step to buying online.
I agree the final say would definetly be in hand.
Aside from this purchase it is something I have wondered about. I do not consider myself to be a very good coin grader at this time but getting pointers from experts should help me improve.

MFeld

@Morgan13 said:

@MFeld said:
Not surprisingly, Proof coins are far less likely than circulation strikes to exhibit “scuffs”. Not knowing what the subject coin looks like in hand, my guess is that the mark(s) on the sun would knock off a point or so from the grade.

Thank you @MFeld.
I am considering purchasing a pricey to me proof set. The WLH is magnificent looking in images which is the first step to buying online.
I agree the final say would definetly be in hand.
Aside from this purchase it is something I have wondered about. I do not consider myself to be a very good coin grader at this time but getting pointers from experts should help me improve.

You’re welcome.

Why mess with buying coins of that type which haven’t been graded yet? They’re plentiful in TPG holders and buying ungraded examples probably won’t save you much, if anything.

ChrisH821

I don't see the marks on the sun you are talking about... Maybe I am interpreting the image incorrectly but it looks like the normal flow lines that radiate from the center of the coin. What should we be looking for?
On a proof WLH the most likely areas to have noticeable hairlines are the fields, particularly the larger right side field above IGWT. The highest areas of relief may show signs of abrasion due to potentially many years of sliding around in the proof coin pouches used by the mint at the time.
My "general" grading guideline that I use is as follows: If I can notice non-parallel, scattered hairlines during casual inspection but they are not distracting, PR65. If I have to really search to find very few, small hairlines, PR67. In between those two conditions would fall PR66, and a coin with easily noticeable hairlines would be a PR64 or lower. If the coin has other unusual marks or abrasions, all bets are off, maybe take a point away depending on how offensive they are.
That is just my experience, sometimes I get it wrong. Your experience, eyes, light, etc. may differ.

Morgan13

Good advice and input thank you.
I wanted the challenge of finding a nice WLH era proof set using my own eyes and having it graded.
I did locate what appears to be a nice set with a return privilege but we are several hundred dollars apart.
I wont cave in so its on to the next interesting coin search. Its just an idea nothing I am chasing.
I am not afraid to put a question out there if I believe I can get good feedback.

oldabeintx

It is simply unwise to buy raw proofs based on photos unless you really know and trust the seller.

seatedlib3991

I know you should not be counting marks or scratches, but look up definitions in the ANA Grading guides and most times they say things like; "Less marks or scratches than found on the previous grade". (So go figure). I guess you would have to go to the TPG site and "See" what their plate coins exhibit for the grade you are considereing. James

Morgan13

@oldabeintx said:
It is simply unwise to buy raw proofs based on photos unless you really know and trust the seller.

Your not wrong but there is a return privilege and I would not buy a raw proof set without one.
The seller did not speculate a grade.
FlyingAl scored a finest known proof set that if I am not mistaken started out with pictures.