Which holder is older?

tradedollarnut

Or are they the same generation?

coinbuf

Cannot say without seeing the rev, both could be gen 4 or gen 3. Best guess from the front only pics is the bottom one is gen 3 the top gen 4.

cameonut2011

Reverse slab shots? I think these are the same generation.

RedRocket

The black dot on the bottom right corner of the insert is to the left of the first one and to the right on the second example. Thus, concluding it is the oldest of the two.

tradedollarnut

RedRocket

Reverse photos.
Thank you for the confirmation.

coinbuf

With the rev shown both are gen 4 holders.

tradedollarnut

Thanks!

TomB

Same generation holder for each. They are both NGC 4 holders, but since NGC gave out cert numbers based upon the submission number already printed on the paperwork it means that just going by cert number will not tell you which coin was certified first.

jackrabb1t

201388-001 was encapsulated in March of 1989, 231251-004 was encapsulated in October of 1991.

oreville

@coinbuf said:
With the rev shown both are gen 4 holders.

Agreed.

TomB

@jackrabb1t said:
201388-001 was encapsulated in March of 1989, 231251-004 was encapsulated in October of 1991.

That is cool data if it is accurate. Might I ask how you know?

jackrabb1t

@TomB said:

@jackrabb1t said:
201388-001 was encapsulated in March of 1989, 231251-004 was encapsulated in October of 1991.

That is cool data if it is accurate. Might I ask how you know?

NGC has this data for all the coins they've certified. It's surfaced on the cert verification page for copper coins in the fine print for the 10 year color guarantee, but it can be found for all coins with some tricks.

When I launch the project in my signature I'll be surfacing this for free for all the NGC coins I hava data for (currently 6.7 million).

TomB

Cool! I hope your project starts soon and wish you luck.

cameonut2011

@jackrabb1t said:

@TomB said:

@jackrabb1t said:
201388-001 was encapsulated in March of 1989, 231251-004 was encapsulated in October of 1991.

That is cool data if it is accurate. Might I ask how you know?

NGC has this data for all the coins they've certified. It's surfaced on the cert verification page for copper coins in the fine print for the 10 year color guarantee, but it can be found for all coins with some tricks.

When I launch the project in my signature I'll be surfacing this for free for all the NGC coins I hava data for (currently 6.7 million).

Please be sure to share a link to your project when you're done. I'd love to see it.

SimonW

Can’t you just tell by the numbers? The first two digits, 20 comes before 23, so you know the 20 is older. They look like the same generation, as stated.

logger7

As others said. Before the upc "mark of the beast".

TomB

@SimonW said:
Can’t you just tell by the numbers? The first two digits, 20 comes before 23, so you know the 20 is older. They look like the same generation, as stated.

No, you can't tell by the numbers. As I wrote earlier in this thread, at that time NGC cert numbers were based upon the pre-printed submission number on the paper submission form. These forms could be used in any order, so in theory at 23XXXX number could have been submitted before a 20XXXX number.

SimonW

@TomB said:

@SimonW said:
Can’t you just tell by the numbers? The first two digits, 20 comes before 23, so you know the 20 is older. They look like the same generation, as stated.

No, you can't tell by the numbers. As I wrote earlier in this thread, at that time NGC cert numbers were based upon the pre-printed submission number on the paper submission form. These forms could be used in any order, so in theory at 23XXXX number could have been submitted before a 20XXXX number.

Oh, gotcha! I didn’t know that. PCGS did though right? Generally speaking.